RootsChat.Com

I forgot to answer one of your queries "I am a bit perplexed then as to why you were interested in Joseph/Mary Burgin if you knew Johns Father was a John?  Is it because you could find nothing on him?"  Well yes exactly right!  I was searching for any thing, and these names cropped up more than once against nothing for John!

Any how going back to my original post .........    " ..................The parents of this Joseph being Francis Burgin b abt1738 and Elizabeth Hawley b abt 1738. "  I am now thinking that Joseph/Mary Burgin may be the brother of John.  He seems to have a brother John born around the right time, but the family links to Foston or Barrowby, rather than Gonnerby.

Many thanks again Trish, very, very helpful!

The M/C details we have for John Burgoin and Elizabeth Mane are:
Married: 10 October 1857
John Burgoin   age 60  Elizabeth Mane age 40
John  - Widower        Elizabeth -  Spinster
John - Cow Keeper    Elizabeth -  Cook Domestic Servant
Residence      John - Saint Martins, Stamford        Elizabeth - Rutland Terrace, Stamford
Father's name:  John - John Burgoin     Elizabath - John Mane
Profession of Father:   John - Agricultural Labourer            Elizabeth - Stocking Weaver 

Sorry we do have a B/C for John William:
Born:        5 May 1861 Back Street, Saint Martins, Stamford
Name:       John William
Father:      John Burgoin  (note the different spelling)
Mother:     Elizabeth Burgoin formerly Mane
Occupation of father:        General labourer

It appears that this Elizabeth came from Leicestershire so this is perhaps where the link to the Walton's comes in.

If as you say the John Burgin /Burgoyne baptised 1793 is the correct father of Willie then he sired Willie at the age of 68 - quite impressive! In which case Willies grandfather was the John Burgin who married Ann Gray in Gt Gonnerby in 1789.   NOT the Joseph Burgin/Mary Bartram who married in Gunby in 1795 as confirmed by Geoff-E.  I had thought Gunby, Gonerby and Gt Gonnerby where corruptions of the same place! So I guess the correct John Burgin we are looking at was born around 1768.

Thanks Geoff.  I expect it to be Gunby, St Nicholas.  Can you confirm the wifes maiden name?

However things get complicated when I get to records, as their son John Burgin, (the subject of my research so far) if it is in fact their son comes up as follows in the census.

In 1841 he is in Stamford Baron, with wife Elizabeth b1792 and two daughters Sarah b1823 and Elizabeth b1825
The wife I have for him in the 1851 is Elizabeth (the same as above I think, b1793 in S Witham, though he is now down as coming from Gt Gonerby.
In 1861 there is different(?) wife Elizabeth b1819 from Cosby, he's down as from Gonerby.
In 1871 his wife is Elizabeth (Main or Mane we think this time) b1826 in Blaby, and he's down as from Gt Gumerley.

Its with this wife that we think he has a son John William (Willie) b1862 in St Martins (Stamford?) Northamptonshire - christened Stamford Baron 1861.

In 1881 William (Willie) now is in Alfreton living with his uncle John J Walton (or Warton) and family.  I can't find any link to the Walton's for how he is their nephew.

All the above fits together, but is John William's (Willies) grandfather, the Joseph Burgin who married Mary Bartram.   Even if it is I don't seem to be able to get further back.

Any more suggestions?

Martin
Western Australia 

Hi,

I'm new to all this having only stated my research at Christmas.  What an informative discussion and excellent data base.  I can add a few bits having research my wife's family tree.  Her great grandmother was Sophia Wagelein, daughter of a large family from the Wurttemburg area.

She was a servant for her sister Barbara, in 1901who had married Herbert Leech - Pork butcher.  With her at the same butchers was a relative (?) Caroline Bealamire. There is also another sister Louisa working for the Taylor's together with her sister Minna (Wilhelmina).  And I think one more Karoline, (Caroline) who I think married a Karle (or Carley) working in Rotherham.  All have a pork butcher link. 

Sophia had an illegitimate son Karl or Carl born in Germany 1888, the father of whom is unknown.  But the family suggestion is that it was the local Baron or his son that Sophia worked for before coming to Sheffield.  It seems she left Karl behind possibly with Grand parents. It is suggested that Karl came in 1904 aged 16.  He married Lydia Dunn in May 1911, they then set up a pork butchers in Darnall called Dunn's using Lydia's maiden name, possibly funded by her father who had a bottling plant.  I can't find any record of Carl in the 1911 census, so I am wondering who he worked for, or was apprenticed, to after he arrived.  There are a range of possibilities as my wife remembers visits to and by the Zahire's and Frederichs, other Sheffield pork butcher.  Can you add anything, and particularly who his father may have been.  Karl was supposed to have come from Kupfetsell, though Sophia's local baron may have been in Rechbach or Drozbach. 

Can't wait to read the book German Pork Butchers in Britain by Sue Gibbons!  Never realised the German link would un earth so much facinating history about a Sheffield phenomenon!

Martin
Western Australia