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Hi all - my great grandparents came from what is now Poland but was Russia before 1909 (first child born then in Liverpool).. and are at 37 Gt Orford street in 1911 before moving to 52 Moon street for the rest of the time it was there...  both are buried in Rice Lane Jewish cemetery, Joseph and Minnie  Ellenbogen (Ellenburgh on 1911)

Additional to the above this is part of an email i got from the guy who looks after the graveyard where Minnie and Joe are ....

"I have discovered however that both your ggf Joseph and your ggm Minnie are buried in the now disused Jewish Rice Lane cemetery in the Walton district of Liverpool. Joseph was interred on 11th Feb 1959 and Minnie on 11th May 1942 (plot ref. C31.32) and they both lived at 52 Moon Street at the time of their death."

The record for Joe is actually mispelled slightly as ellenbogeM. - feb 1959.  there is also a death record for a Joseph Ellenbogen for June 1960 in London - I presumed this one was the one in the asylum / hospital in 1891, because of the London connection

Joseph Ellenbogen was called up for service in WW1 but not until June 1918 so only served for a few months.

His service record simply gives his birthplace as Russia - but it shows his marriage to Minnie and the children they had up until 1918 i.e.

Joseph Ellenbogen married to Minnie Cohen 20/5/1908 Liverpool (cannot trace on civil registration marriages - is this because they were Jewish?)

Children up to 1918:

Louis b.4/5/1909 (he died in Warrington in 1994 and his death recorded under Ellenbogen & Ellenbaum.)
Barny (Barnett) b.14/12/1910
Leah b.27/5/1913
Betsy b.10/12/1915
Elsie b.30/11/1917

So, sometimes Ellenbogen is Ellenbaum and Cohen becomes Jofsky/Ajovsky/Arjoski.

I suspect you have most or all of this already.

Annette

yes i have most of that, but thanks.. I have my Grandad Sam's birth Certificate which gave me the Ajovsky, My mum has said who the kids were (dont think she met many of them) and all of the ones with various spellings of Ajovsky have the same names so im 99% certain that they are all children of minnie....the WW1 records have her name as Cohen, but this is a Jewish name and I presume that she took / was given that name initially because it was easier for the British people that were filling in documents...ive been told that i was "lucky" to find her proper name.

I believe they left Russia (Poland didn't technically exist then) in rather a hurry due to some pogrom or something Russians didn't like Jews either as the abject poverty they lived in initially kind of suggests to me that you wouldn't choose to live that way if you didnt have to, I might be wrong obviously. they are also dont appear to be related to the many Ellenbogens that lived in l'pool at the time.

having initially said i dont know much, Ive not done bad  but this is where the road ends as far as going further back on my mums fathers side,

Granddad Sam and his twin Israel (another Jewish name) were both in the Royal Army Service Corps and I do have their numbers, just wondering if getting Sams service records would shed anymore light -

My Great Grandparents came from Russia / Poland and seemingly dropped of the "official" face of the earth except for the fact that they had a few kids here in England, and only really appear on the records in WW1 and when they both died. (ive contacted Jewish Genealogists and they also cant find anything more)

Joseph and Minnie Ellenbogen - Id love to know where they actually came from.

I imagine that their children have all passed away (one of them may still be alive as I can't find a death entry for him - My grandads twin brother - although he'd be 93ish)

They could've had children themselves though and I realise this is a massive massive long shot but I can only think of trying to trace possible children of Josephs and Minnies children, with the reason being My Granddad moved from Liverpool to Derbyshire after demob in WW2 and as far as im aware never went back I was only 7 when he died so I obviously never asked him.  The possible kids I've traced are all still in L'pool and may have  actually known Joseph and Minnie.

any other ideas would be gratefully accepted?

Thanks in advance.

Not particularly a happy subject but... My Great Great Grandmother Maud Barley (maiden name reeve) from Staveley in Derbyshire, had loads of kids -something like 17. in the 1911 census there is mention of 5 children that have died, just wondering if its possible to find what their names were as unfortunately they would have been born / died before the mothers maiden name was put on the records. 

Thank you