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Messages - embryo

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Hello Harding hunters, I have finally received a copy of Henrietta Harding's birth certificate (b. 8 Mar. 1884). This cites Ellen's "former" name as being McGuire and Arthur's occupation as "sadler", despite him being the Collector of Tolls in Irlam at that time! From further research on "familysearch.org" (ref. M75023-1, India-EASy, 499048), I found a marriage record for Arthur Harding and Ellen.Two anomalies arise from this record: 1. bride's name Ellen Goony (father: Henry McGuire) and 2. Arthur's father's name being James Harding. On Arthur's marriage certificate with Margaret Long (13 April 1863), Arthur's father is cited as "Arthur Harding, Law clerk". Ellen's "former" name of McGuire, would suggest that she was previously married, or her mother re-married. Sources noted elsewhere on this thread, name her as Ellen Young and Ellen Gooney! "familysearch.org" (ref. B39315-5, India-EASy, 499033) records the death of a John Cooney, 19 Feb. 1869, Sergeant - Royal Artillery, in Saugor, Bengal, India.............a tenuous possibility?
embryo

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Hi Daisy,

As promised, I can now update you on recent developments. Firstly, I have received copies from my nephew, of the movements of G Battery, 8 Brigade from embarkation to India and some of their movements within India. The source is "Battery Records of the Royal Artillery, vol. 3 by M.E.S.Laws".
 
[E,F,G & H batteries, 8 Brigade R.A. sailed from Portsmouth Harbour on HM troopship Serapis on 14th Dec. 1867. Arrived at Bombay and landed 17th Jan. 1868. February-March: On the march. Reached Cawnpore 8th April 1868. In Cawnpore until Dec. 1870, when they transfer to Jullundur, arriving 21st. Dec. 1870. November 1873 on the march to Peshawar, arriving 25th. November1873. January 1876 on the march to Rawalpindi, arriving 21st. January 1876. The regiment was reorganised and G Battery, 8 Brigade became G Battery, 3 Brigade 1st. July 1876.]

The Cawnpore details appear to confirm your post regarding the death of Margaret,9th. April1868 as this ties in with the Battery being there at the right time. So sad to get so far and end up under such circumstances. I haven't chased a birth certificate for Henrietta as yet but a FIBIS transcription of ''Bengal Marriage Indexes 1865-1873 cites the marriage of Arthur and Ellen Young 1872, Bengal. The same can be said of the "Bengal Presidency Index of marriages", so I feel that Young is most likely the correct surname.

Finally, your lead to the Ballincollig website has proved most fruitful, in so far as I now have direct contact with Mike A. and shall be communicating with him very soon!
Your assistance has been invaluable, thank you so much (I'm sure Mike A. will concur!).

Kindest regards, Mike B. 

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Hi Daisy,
Many thanks for your post of 30th. I had at some stage seen the marriage info you quote, but had not been able to confirm that
Ellen Goony was the correct person. At present, Ellen could be Young or Goony. My mission now, is to try and firm up these facts, possibly as you suggested to Mike A, by viewing the birth certificate of any of the Harding children born in the UK. The Muster lists that I have, were obtained by one of my nephews and in conversation with him recently, he told me that he has obtained a copy of Arthur Harding Snr.'s Brigade movements in India. I await a copy in turn with keen anticipation! The web addresses that you kindly added look as though they may be fruitful and I shall be exploring them as soon as possible. The trouble is, the Olympics are taking their toll on my time! In the event that I find anything constructive from my searches, I shall of course, post my findings here.
Once again, many thanks for your support and interest.

embryo     

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Hi Daisy,
Thank you so much for your reply. The information relating to Margaret Harding's death looks pretty certain to me and if correct,
is the resolution to a long, frustrating puzzle within my family! As you rightly state, the age, date and location would all appear to
fit. The remaining burning questions are, what happened to Eliza and Arthur Jnr. I know Arthur Jnr. appears on the 1881 census as in lodgings, in Wandsworth at the age of 15years. How and for heavens sake, why? I would be most grateful if you could give me some idea as to what the "new information now online" is and where it can be accessed.
As I stated in my initial post, I have Arthur Harding Snr.'s muster records up until his re-engagement (for 10 years 319 days!) and transfer to India dated 13 December 1876. His records conclude with the following statement: "There are no further Muster records for 8 Brigade, Royal Artillery in the Public Record Office for its period of service in India 1867-1877. There are no Muster records in the India Office Library. The most likely explanation is that they were left in India." This lends me to believe that Arthurs movements within India , will remain another frustration! Along with the muster records I have, are copies of Arthur's letters of recommendation from the Army. One of these letters is written by his then C.O., Major George Frederick Blackwood who was sadly killed in action in 1880, fighting the Ghazis during the 2nd Afghan War. This letter is signed off "G/3 Bgde RA, Murree. Punjab, 28th Sept. 1878." I wonder, could this be the Murrey Hills of my Grandmothers birth? The other letter is not quite so clear but under the signature, is written, "R.A. Rawal Pindi Div'n". Finally Daisy, it is interesting that in the April 1866-March 1867 muster list, the birth of Arthur Jnr. is noted i.e. "Born 9th May 1866, Ballincollig, Cork, Ireland. Father: Arthur Harding; Mother: Margaret Long. Source: Irish Registry Office via Mormon family record website." Why no mention of Eliza, I wonder?
Many thanks again for your interest,
embryo     

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Is anybody there? Further to my last post, in conversation with my sister recently, she can just about remember Arthur Jnr.'s half sister Henrietta who by all accounts, was a bit of a battle-axe. I assume my grandmother was given the name Ellen, with being the first female born to Arthur Snr. and Ellen Young (?). As you Mike A, we are intrigued by the lack of information regarding Margaret (Long), Eliza and Arthur Jnr.'s whereabouts prior to and immediately after, Arthur Snr.'s re-enlistment and posting to India. It has been mooted in our families past that Arthur Jnr. had emigrated to the U.S. but I feel this to be mere speculation. Making contact would be wonderful, can anyone help please?
Mike B.

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Hello, I wish I had stumbled upon this site six years earlier! Mike A, if you are still researching this topic, you and I are very likely cousins. My maternal great grandfather was Arthur Harding Snr., born in Croydon, Collar Maker in the RA, served in Ireland (Athlone, Curragh Camp, Ballincollig, Clonmel - all at various times and periods). I have copies of his Muster Lists covering his movements from enlistment onwards. I have however, been unable to trace anything of his military record following his transfer to India from Woolwich in Dec. 1867. Our family history identifies his first wife as being Margaret Long, the marriage taking place in Ireland and his second wife being Ellen. Until following your thread, we hadn't established her maiden name, nor what and when  happened to Margaret or indeed, the fact that there was the possible first born, Eliza! Following his discharge from the Army, Arthur Snr. became a collector of tolls in Irlam and my sister has very recently come across a photo of Arthur Snr. standing outside the toll house, situated on Liverpool Road which was close to the town of Eccles, near Manchester. I have not seen this as yet but am eager to receive a copy soon. My grandmother was Sarah Ellen Harding, born Murrey Hills, India around 1876(+-) and her younger Daughter was my mother. My grandmother lived all her life close to where the toll house used to be and I live a stones throw from Irlam!
As I said initially,I wish I had found this site earlier but hope you, Mike, still return to check for input such as mine. It would be great to confirm our connection and persue it further.

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