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Yes I did not mean all crimes were near race courses just many of the ones I have found on various sites, I have also found some in Birmingham and you obviously found the aliases I found or knew of. I definitely know both he and my father worked the race courses because I met a bookmaker my father knew in the late 1950s.
Going back years ago there was quite a difference between Romanys and travellers- my father travelled with the Romanys and lived with one Silena, he never called them travellers. I understood traveller to mean he was a tough guy who travelled around the country but I was only a young girl when my father confided in me about his early life and violent father and am only remembering what I was told. We never spoke of his father again really and I didn't tell anyone  until Barbara Allard contacted me around 2010 and she researched it. I then mentioned it to other family members.  Mr Snape is Alan Snape my half brother and obviously I discussed the family history at length with him.
*I have a year of birth for my grandfather of 1872/73 mother Mary Oram.
Are you a family member?

I have just found this chat on the Forum and hope that you may pick up this post although nearly twelve months later.
I am Henry John Allard's daughter Phyllis, my father was known as "Harry". He was a shop keeper and market trader. When I was first born we lived at 43 Ladypool Road, Sparkbrook and my father rented a shop across the road which my mother ran. (His father also lived at this house before I was born) He was mainly a market trader and sold leather goods which he made himself. We later lived behind a shop in Prince of Wales Lane. My father had another shop in Newtown Row as well. He was well known as Harry the market trader in the 1960s.I understand he used to travel around the country selling these bags and purses before he married my mum (Phyllis Snape, Alan Snape's mother).
My dad kept his family history pretty much to himself although he did confide in me as we used to travel to the market in Newtown Row on a Saturday morning. I also didn't really confide in anyone until 2000s when I was surprised my older half brother Alan Snape didn't know about the manslaughter case.
The story has told to me by my father was that John Allard his father was a horrible violent man and had been a leader of a gang when young and was later very involved with a race course and betting gang in Birmingham. (My father was a bookies runner when young and could do the TicTac on the course). John Allard used to collect the money from the races (this may have been protection money or bookmakers takings I'm not sure)
On the day of the attack he had noticed two travellers (that were known to him) were watching him. Apparently he threatened them and warned them off early in the day. Later when he was taking the betting money to be dropped off (I can't remember quite where but I remember my father saying it was a lot of money), he noticed them again, he shouted a warning and swore at them. They continued to follow so he faced up to them and a fight developed, he always carried an umberella with a sharp point for protection when he travelled alone and this is what he used to defend himself with, stabbing Cutler the traveller in the eye. The other traveller ran off and the money was never mentioned. My father said several police offers were on the Gangs payroll. The witnesses spoke up for my grandfather and he was later charged with manslaughter not murder.
Shortly after coming out of Prison John Allard threw a man out of an upstairs window- this was reportedly the other traveller but my father wasn't so sure it was him, possibly someone else. He was probably establishing his position again in the gang. He seems to travel to different racecourses quite a lot and his part in the Epson Fight as a member of the 'Brummagem Boys' is recorded.
My father disliked his father so much he ran away several times, one time he went with a circus and another travelled with Romany gypsies and I believe this is when he met Silena whom he had at least one child possibly two with - Lena Susie and Jackie (a boy). Lena once told me Jackie wasn't my fathers son but I thought he looked very like my father.
My father was Henry John Allard although I saw printed cards with Jack Allard, John Henry Allard and Harry Allard on. There were also different professions on the various cards: painter, shop keeper (haberdasher) and market trader. I think its best not to read to much into my family's professions!
He told me the family came from France originally and that they had fled from there with nothing in the 18th century. Joseph and Lydia are definitely part of my family, I traced back to Joseph some years ago (Born 1816 Packwood). If I remember right he died of drink while living in Kings Norton.

I have tried to trace Joseph's parents but have found nothing relating to Packwood, another researcher says he may be nothing to do with Packwood, Joseph also listed Knowle somewhere else. I also found several different dates of birth for him.

I am thinking the same thing about Joseph, with no Allards near Packwood and the fact that on the 1841 census he puts down place of birth as Warwickshire, Packwood could be somewhere he spent some time when he was little. It is this detail that seems to block any further identification. I did try and check the illegitimate Joseph( birth 1814) out at Packwood but came to a dead end. Josephs son Henry (1842) was married to Mary Ann (Oram-unconfirmed by myself) and I know of at least one child of theirs Henry John (1873)
Lydias christening details from Ciderdrinker seem to be correct, so I now have Lydia's parents details.
Great research everyone! 

Good Morning
I have been researching away all weekend with the help of the information you you have all provided.
Joseph Allard still seems a bit of a mystery so I decided to check out his son HENRY ALLARD born 1842 who married MARY ANN ORAM (not sure about this surname) and thought I might find something further about his father, but HENRY seems to disappear after 1861 census and I cant find a record of his marriage. I have found Lydia Allard (possibly Joseph's wife) a widow 1871 census, in Kings Norton Worcestershire.
Jim 1 found a William Allard a haberdasher in the Bull Ring and I think he is definitely in the family tree because several family members down the line are market traders and shopkeepers by trade.
Is it usual for family christian names to reoccur again and again through the generations ex. Henry, John, William? 

Hi Everyone,
What can I say but what a great lot of people there are out there. When I saw my replies I was absolutely thrilled!!
I have Joseph Allard and his wife Lydia on the 1841 and 1861 census -Aston Birmingham, can't find him on the 1871 census though. I have not found his date of death or burial record. I have also have traced the records of their childrens christenings: Eliza Jane, Henry, Harriet Elizabeth and William Allard and have  found a site that says Lydia Wragg came from Handley, Derbyshire, any further help would be much appreciated.