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Messages - Genie24

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1
Northumberland / Re: Lisle Family Northumberland
« on: Thursday 05 March 26 12:15 GMT (UK)  »
I think this is looking like an error on the part of the enumerator when he recorded Hazelbridge rather than Hazelrigg. This is a great resource. I have made a note of it for future use. Thank you and to everyone else who has responded to my post so far.

2
Northumberland / Re: Lisle Family Northumberland
« on: Wednesday 04 March 26 22:18 GMT (UK)  »
Oh, I didn't think to look at these old 1860s Ordnance Survey maps and I have literally just been looking at them a few days ago for Sunderland. They are great! I can see Hazelrigg on there and that is clearly where this is I think. It has clarified that anyway. Many thanks

I am still looking at those other  Yeoman/Lisles.

3
Northumberland / Re: Lisle Family Northumberland
« on: Wednesday 04 March 26 19:48 GMT (UK)  »
Thank you so much. Yes, I think it may be relevant as the Frances on the 1841 census is Frances nee Lile which is clearly Lisle. She has incorporated a Lisle family name into her own family. Also the 1851 census has a Frances Lisle as a servant. I will definitely look into this. My motto is 'leave no stone unturned' and this is definitely worth investigating.

Many thanks!

4
Northumberland / Re: Lisle Family Northumberland
« on: Wednesday 04 March 26 18:44 GMT (UK)  »
Brilliant! Thanks! It shows that this is all in the same general area. I don't know whey people just didn't stick to the same birth place each time.

This all helps strengthen my theory that the Lisles were not only linked with my Halls from Lowick but I am convinced that my great x 3 Mary Ann Aitken was known to them too. She probably went with William Lisle to work for Anthony and ended up marrying him. They appear as man and wife in 1841 with a young baby who  sadly died later that year, but didn't actually marry until the following year at St. Hilda South Shields and I am finding strong links with the Lisles and St. Hilda, South Shields.

5
Northumberland / Lisle Family Northumberland
« on: Wednesday 04 March 26 17:28 GMT (UK)  »
I am trying to find out more about this particular Lisle family from Northumberland. My reasons for researching them are quite complicated as I believe that they may be more significant than they appear to be via the mere connection via marriage to one of my Hall ancestors.

This family appears on the 1841 census living in Elswick, Newcastle Upon Tyne. Father John Lisle, a Cartman born about 1791, wife Mary born about 1803 Berwick. Children Alexander and Sarah, both recorded as aged 15 (born about 1826) Jobson, aged 12 ( born about 1829) and Harriet aged 10 (born about 1831. They are mis transcribed as Liste rather than Lisle.

Jobson married Ann Hall, born 1827 Lowick, sometime around 1849. Ann Hall was the daughter of my great x 3 grandfather Anthony Hall born 1813 Lowick's  sister Isabella Hall 1799 and her husband William Hall 1791. They were cousins.

Ann Hall appears on the  1841 census living with my Anthony Hall as his servant at Low Row, Sunderland. She was his niece. Also living there are 2 boarders including William Lisle. These boarders were both recorded as Baker's Apprentices.

I have long since suspected that this William Lisle was related to the Jobson Lisle married to Ann Hall and that this is how Ann and William met.

Anthony Hall appears on the 1851 census living at  13 George Street, Sunderland. He is  recorded as Baker employing 1 man.  This  was his nephew, Andrew Hall. He was the son of his sister, Isabella Hall and Ann Hall's brother.

Then Anthony moved to Newcastle and continued his baker's business there on St. Peter's Quay but William Lisle remained in Sunderland. I found him on every census  until his death in 1881. He lived in streets very close to George Street and continued working a  baker.  The data from the census records his date of birth around 1824 Lowick.

I have been able to find the baptism records of the oldest and youngest children of John Lisle and Mary.

Alexander Lisle born 4th August 1821 Stamford, Parish of Embleton. Baptised Scotch Church, Alnwick on the 21st. Alexander son to John Lisle Hynd to ? Thomson of Stamford Parish of Embleton and Mary....

Harriet born 18th May 1830 Wooler. Baptised 7th June 1830 West Chapel,Wooler.

But no sign of Sarah, who was supposedly the same age as Alexander but was clearly not or Jobson.

Neither can I find a marriage for Jobson and Ann Hall or   birth or any evidence linking these Lisles for William Lisle (baker's apprentice).

Jobson records his birth place differently on every census - 1841 Northumberland, 1851 Hazelbridge, 1861 Lowick, 1871 Wooler, 1881 Newcastle Upon Tyne.

Does anyone know where Hazelbridge was located. I can't seem to find anything about it.

I am very keen to learn more about these Lisles as I believe they may have been a family my great x 3 grandmother Mary Ann Aitken was brought up with when her mother died. I have often wondered how she got to be living in Sunderland and meet Anthony Hall. She was born in Berwick and that is where Mary Lisle was born. Some have her as Mary Ludlow but that marriage between Mary Ludlow and John Lisle wasn't until 1838 which was after all the children were born.

Sorry for the long post!


6
West Lothian (Linlithgowshire) / Re: Spalden/Spalding Kirkliston
« on: Friday 11 July 25 14:41 BST (UK)  »
Well it appears that the  marriage date was actually 11th June 1841 which is 5 days after the census. I have just  noticed that date in a couple of other trees but they had no supporting evidence. I had also previously  made a note in my tree referring to a post from an Ancestry member writing about the life of John Campbell and the date of marriage in that story, the marriage date was 11th June. So that explains that they were not married at the time of the census.

7
West Lothian (Linlithgowshire) / Re: Spalden/Spalding Kirkliston
« on: Friday 11 July 25 14:28 BST (UK)  »
Thank you so much for your very informative response. I very much appreciate it. I think it is just as I feared and the records I am searching for are simply missing. There are other missing records in that part of my tree. Some are there and some not.

I do know about the rounding down of ages on the 1841 census. I don't understand why they did that.  I simply deduced her date of birth from her age given on the schedule but I do appreciate it could be way out.

What I didn't consider is that the date of marriage I have, could be the first date of proclamation so that they may have married after the census. That does tie in with another family tree which claims that Christina's husband, John Campbell was living as a single man. That needs investigating. I haven't viewed the actual marriage entry so I will try to do that.

What I do know is that Alison, her siblings and Alison's children's baptisms are all included in the Church of Scotland records sets. I don't know anything at all about the Spalden/Spaldings or their religious beliefs but maybe this is why Christina and John's children are missing.

8
West Lothian (Linlithgowshire) / Spalden/Spalding Kirkliston
« on: Friday 11 July 25 10:34 BST (UK)  »
I am hoping someone can help with some apparent missing Kirkliston records for Spalden/Spalding/Spaulden.

I recently discovered 2 DNA matches, sisters, who apparently share my great x 5 grandmother Alison Bryce born 1758 Kirkliston. Alison Bryce gave birth to my great x 4 grandfather, Thomas Bryce, illegitimately and he was  baptised on the 19th June 1781 in West Calder. 3 years later, she married James Spalden, on the 5th August 1784 in Kirkliston. They had at least 3 children - John Spalden,  baptised  5th June 1785 Kirkliston, William  20th July 1788 Kirkliston (recorded as Spadie)  and Margaret 1st October 1797 Kirkliston. I am aware that there is a big gap between William and Margaret - over 9 years, but they are the only ones I can find so they are confirmed children of James and Alison.

My matches apparently descend from the eldest son, John Spalden 1785 and his wife Agnes Johnston via daughter Christina Spalding 1822. Her date of birth is recorded as 18th February 1822 in Kirkliston but this was taken from her death certificate in Milwaukee and I am not sure if that is accurate. Christina married John Campbell born 1822, Falkirk and they migrated to Milwaukee in 1851

I have trawled through this suggested path and it all adds up perfectly. However, I cannot verify the last step. I cannot find the documentary evidence to 100% prove that Christina Spalding was the daughter of John Spalden 1785 who is the confirmed son of my great x 4 grandmother. I realise that this is a challenge.

John Spalden 1784 apparently married Agnes Johnston and she is listed as the mother of all the children on online trees but I cannot find any evidence of their marriage or baptisms of any of their children. I can only assume that there are huge gaps in the Kirkliston records.

This family did exist as they appear on the 1841 census living in ' detached house' in Kirkliston. John was a Labourer living with wife, Agnes and children - Eahson Spaldin 25 (Alison?), Margaret Spalding 25, Christen Spalding 15, David Spalding 10, Agnes Spalding 7 and Petter (Peter) 4 and Christos? Spalding aged 2 months. The census does not list if they are children or grandchildren.

Now the Christen Spalding, who I assumed was the Christina Spalding in question is recorded as being born in 1826 on the census, not 1822 but I am aware that the ages on the 1841 are not accurate. But, it cannot be her as Christina apparently married John Campbell on the 22nd May 1841 in Kirkliston and the 1841 Scottish census was taken on the 6th June. So, surely, she would appear on the 1841 census with her husband?

A possible explanation for this could be that Christina was a daughter of John Spalden from a previous marriage. Her death certificate records her mother as Christina Spalding.This could either be fact or pure conjecture by her family at the time of her death.

I also suspect that the Margaret Spalding on this census is not their daughter but the daughter of John Spalding's brother, William Spalding 1788 married to Helen Weston. Both his birth and death certificates prove his mother was Alison Bryce.

Does anyone know of anywhere else I can search for Kirkliston records other than Scotland's People, Ancestry, familysearch.org, Find My Past etc?

9
Durham / Re: Seaham Harbour Inquest Mystery
« on: Saturday 19 October 24 19:38 BST (UK)  »
Thanks for your input Alan,

So, it looks like there is going to be no further information from the newspaper entries.

Yes, hat is the 1871 census I have attached to Owen's wife Bridget.  She appears with her husband on the 1851 and 1861 censuses prior to that.

 In 1851 living at Back Terrace. Surname Mackmann. Owen was working as a Railway Labourer. Also living there are sons James and John and Hugh Wood along with several other lodgers and visitors.   I deduced Bridget was nee Woods as her son John, born 1849,  has a mother with maiden name Wood on the GRO Birth Index. He died shortly after the census.

In 1861, they were living at Malcolm's Yard. Owen is recorded as a Labourer. Also living there was son John aged 20, servant Mary A Wood and  boarders  Peter Woods and Peter Warren.

I worked out that Hugh Wood and Mary A Wood are the children of John Wood and Mary McNally. I have John Wood hypothetically as a brother of Bridget. They were living at North Terrace, Seaham Harbour in 1851 and John was also working as a Railway Labourer. They had children Rose, Margaret, Bernard, Hugh and Mary Ann. According to online trees, John Wood died in Durham about  1860, but I can't find any evidence of this and his wife took Bernard and Hugh to Pennsylvania, arriving in New York in 1865. Rose was already there, arriving 1863. Not sure about Margaret but her daughter was born there in 1869. Mary Ann ends up there but I don't know when.

I am wondering if Bridget went there herself and the death I have for her in 1882 is another Bridget.

Until recently, I had her on the 1861 census at another address, Back Rail Street, living with son John, his wife Sarah and his son John. So, if you put a search in for James McMann in that census, 3 come up, all living in Seaham Harbour. But, what I didn't realise, is that the Bridget on the one living at Back Rail Street was 10 years older than my Bridget so I think the death is more likely to be her.

Looks like I've hit a brick wall.

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