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Hi Rich,
Yes he was a soldier of the 58th Rutlandshire Regiment of Foot, and fought
in the Land Wars of NZ.
Bev

That would be Bartholomew II (born c.1823).  Jaffer’s original post indicated that his father Bartholomew I (born c.1800) was also a soldier ...but I suspect not.

Thanks for all your information Jaffer (Chulu?).

My interest in Mullabrach is not so much the spelling (Mullaghbrack on the map, Mullabrack in local useage etc) but the source of your information that Bartholomew I was born there.  If both he and his son Bartholomew II were born there then this would suggest that the family had a relatively long association with the area.

Ooops, forgot to mention the Fencibles... when they retired/took their discharge/pension, they were given a plot of land with a "house" on it. The land plots were either at Howick or Otahuhu.

I don’t have any information to suggest that Bartholomew II was a Fencible.

The Hughes book indicates that there *was* a military presence in Otahuhu (prior to/other than the Fencibles) which could explain why the McIlroys had a long association with that area also.  For example, when the 18th Regiment disembarked in Auckland they went straight to “Otahuhu camp”, a number of regiments (14th, 43rd 70th etc) seem to have been based at Otahuhu at various times or had detachments based there, almost all of the 68th who took their leave in NZ were discharged at Otahuhu etc etc.

The Hughes book simply says that Bartholomew II was “Discharged with Gratuity” – which I would have thought was some kind of monetary payment.

The muster books would probably tell us whether Bartholomew returned to Sydney in 1846 with the rest of the 58th or remained here in NZ.

We should probably return this thread to its original 58th Regiment of Foot status – on that note 58th related websites (mainly pertaining to NZ) which may be of interest to others include: A Soldiers Life http://www.benner.org.nz/index.php/stories/interesting-stories/130-a-soldiers-life; Wargaming the First Maori War (!!) http://www.wargamesillustrated.net/Default.aspx?tabid=292&art_id=2166 – has info on the campaigns; and of course 58th Foot Rutlandshire Regiment http://freepages.history.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~garter1/58thfoot.htm
 
Thanks again to everyone for their input.

Lindys

Our Bartholomew is a popular man!

Bartholomew’s daughter Margaret married Thomas Johns.  I have Margaret’s DOB as 24.09.1849.

So Bartholomew sails on the William Jardin from London on 1 July 1844 (this is the date in the Hughes’ book although other websites give 11 August 1844 as the departure date which is a little confusing).  Does anyone know where in London it would’ve sailed from?  The Hughes’ book lists all the ships and where they sailed from - for some it specifically mentions Woolwich or Deptford but for others it just mentions London.

Bartholomew’s eldest son James (my great great grandfather) is born 1842 in Chatham, Kent – which I suspect was where the 58th were stationed.  One website records that 7 women and 10 children sailed on the William Jardin.  I suspect James and his mother Ellen are amongst this group.  I can’t begin to imagine what it must’ve been like for a 2 year old to travel all that way (over 4 months) in a wooden ship.  Can anyone direct me to a picture of what one of these late 19th century convict ships looked like?  Can anyone tell me what route they would’ve taken from London to Australia/NZ (around South America or around Africa)?  Would it have stopped anywhere?

The William Jardin (with Bartholomew) arrives Van Diemen’s Land (Hobart) on 20 November 1844.  The guard proceed to Sydney on a different ship.  I understand they were stationed at Paramatta (now the NSW Lancer Barracks).  Then in 1845 Bartholomew sails with the 58th to NZ on board either the HMS Northstar or the brigantine (whatever that is) Velocity.

I’d like to know how Ellen and James got here.  Maybe they initially stayed in Sydney because the 58th return to Sydney in 1846 for garrison duty (except for a detachment that remained at Wellington).  Then the 58th come back to NZ in 1847.  Did the women and children just follow the regiment around?  The birth records of the two children born in this period (John and Jane) may provide some answers.

I suspect Bartholomew fought at Puketutu (Heke’s Pa) and possibly Ruapekapeka (Kawiti’s Pa).

That’s pretty much all I have that is 58th related.

So many questions so few answers!

I’ll send you a PM with other non-58th stuff.  The 1870 Ellen McIlroy BDM reference will be a daughter born 1860.

cheers
Rich

Thanks.

I came across the 1870 Ellen McIlroy BDM reference you refer to a few days ago.  In your experience is it best to get the death certificate or the death print out?

I now have a copy of the Hughes' book which is really quite impressive.  How good would it be to spend some time with the Hughes and "pick their brains." 

It's a pity there isn't more information online about the 58th. I'll definitely try and get a copy of Michael Barthorp's To Face The Daring Maori.

Thanks again.
Rich

Hello

I'm a Kiwi living in NZ.

I want to know more about my great great great grandfather Bartholomew McIlroy.

There is a reference to him here on this 58th Regiment webpage  http://freepages.history.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~garter1/58thfoot.htm (on this page here http://freepages.history.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~garter1/m58th.htm).

There is also a reference to him on this National Archives page here:- http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/displaycataloguedetails.asp?CATLN=7&CATID=-5900728&j=1

The National Archives record is a bit difficult to interpret.  If I am reading it correctly it would suggest that he was aged 27 in 1844 (making his DOB 1817 although I have other possible DOBs including 1823) and discharged in November 1844 due to some kind of ailment.  My knowledge of the 58th is limited but looking at the dates the ships arrived in NSW this could suggest that he was discharged not long after he arrived and possibly prior to the 58th heading to NZ (??).

Aside from this my information is limited.  He was possibly born in or near Markethill or Mullaghbrack, Armagh.  He died in 1869 possibly in Thames.  He married an Ellen Connor (died 1866 Otahuhu).  They had 10(!) children.

I'm a bit new to all this but will hopefully one day have worked out where/when he was born; where/when he enlisted; which ship he sailed on; where he departed from; how he made it to NZ (with the 58th on the North Star/Velocity or independently); where/when he met Ellen Connor; where they are buried etc etc

I will try to get my hands on a copy of Hugh & Lyn Hughes' book "Discharged in New Zealand". 

Until then, if anyone could give me any pointers or helpful hints it would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Rich