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Messages - lukeedward

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1
Hi all

thanks for info about Bessie with Benjamin and Hannah Marks. Alicia married David Davis and it is their daughter who I am doing the research for. I see on My Heritage that two people Teddy Craze and Beryl Camilleri mention Rose Craze. I have contacted them but had no reply
Thanks again
Luke Edward

2
Hi all

Many thanks for all your replies. I have just spoken to the grand daughter of Rose and Mark. Before I mentioned it she said the name Mamie rang a bell, so I know for certain we have the right person. I also now have a picture of the gravestone for Mark Simmons. Rosina(Mamie) born Young, married Frauenhaus had Thelma, married Beckman had Michael, married Mark in 1951. I can see that Thelma and Michael both married, but have not looked further. So that answers one of my queries.
As regards Bessie. I wondered where she got the £4000 from. Must be about £200,000 in todays money. I have her birth as 2nd quarter 1927. the death in 1981 could be her. More research needed
I have seen the article about Edward loitering with intent
thanks again
Luke Edward

3
Hi Rosie99. Unfortunately I dont know where Bessie is on the 1939 register. Softly Softly suggested Eastbourne but I dont think this is right. In 1954 she  is living in Leith mansions Maida Vale.
I have found on the 1939 register a Henry Solomon living with an Edward Solomon living at 5 Grafton Place Euston. slight discrepancy in Edwards dob. so not sure
regards
Luke Edward

4
Hi all
Many thanks for your replies
Rosie99. I am 99% certain that deleted entry in 1939 register was their daughter Alicia. I have seen the probate notice., but there does not appear to be a death cert that i can  apply for . nor can i find  a will or probate to apply for.
DCB. Rosina Beckman married Mark Simmons in 1951. The gravestone shows wife Mamie, son Michael and daughter Thelma. cant seem to find any further information. is Rosina  Mamie. The death date looks ok but is it the right Mark Simmons. Further investigation needed
Softly Softly. my Bessie Solomon has dob 2nd quarter 1927. So I think this is the wrong person

thanks again for your help
Luke Edward

5
Rose(Rosie) Craze was born on the 3rd May 1907. In 1923 she married Henry Solomon. They had two children Elisha Edward Solomon born 1925 and Bessie Solomon born in 1927. Shortly after this they split up.  At some stage she met Mark Simmons and lived with him, but they never married. They had children, who I know about. It appears she changed her surname to Simmons. I am not sure whether this was by deed poll or she just assumed his surname.
Rose died October 27th 1950 and she was buried in Hoop Lane Cemetery. The gravestone shows that her surname was Simmons. However Bessie Solomon objected to the name Simmons being used, and brought a case in the High Court in 1954 because of "two lies" on the Gravestone. She wanted the name Solomon to be used.The case made the National Press in England and Australia. I understand that Edward Solomon died in 1952 following an accident at Little Venice. The 1939 Register shows Mark and Rose and 1 closed record living in Brighton. Mark Simmons died in 1977 and I expected to find his grave next to Rose but this was not the case.
I would appreciate help with the following
1. What happened to Bessie after the court case as I cannot find out whether she married or when she died. At the time of the Court case she was living in Maida Vale
2. Mark Simmons death was recorded in St Marylebone, but I cannot find out where he was buried
Any help would be appreciated
Luke Edward

6
Lancashire / Re: descendants of crowther family who in 1901 census lived in Oldham
« on: Friday 02 December 22 09:43 GMT (UK)  »
Hi

Just a quick update. I now have the three wedding certificates for Sophia Crowther. 1908 to Morris Gross. 1913 to William Beeby Lister and 1917 To Benjamin William Mawl Morris in New Zealand.
NZ certificate shows her birth place as York. Parents as Samuel and Esther and Samuels occupation as railway official. Interestingly all three certificates show her as being a spinster. Obviously a case of selective amnesia

Luke Edward

7
Lancashire / Re: descendants of crowther family who in 1901 census lived in Oldham
« on: Thursday 24 November 22 13:15 GMT (UK)  »
From birth cert.

Sophia Crowther born 27th April 1886 Saddleworth. Sub District of Uppermill in the County of York
Address looks like Dobcross Saddleworth.
Interestingly father Sam is shown as a police officer but in 1901 census as a labourer in an iron works
I am now of the opinion that the marriage of Morris and Sophia ended about 1911/12. He claimed to be a widower and she a spinster so that they could continue with their lives. it sounds as untruths in those days were quite common, and checks on information supplied hardly ever checked. I believe Sophia married William Beeby Lister in 1913 and later Sophia Lester nee Crowther married Benjamin Morris in 1917 in New Zealand (found marriage in New Zealand records). Benjamin died 1955.
The entry in Newspaper Index cards is interesting. Dont know if contact was ever made with Sophia Morris

Thank you to everyone who has tried to help me. I think I have established as much as I am likely to get. Morris remarried in 1919 and the marriage was deemed legal. so thats it .

Luke Edward

8
Lancashire / Re: descendants of crowther family who in 1901 census lived in Oldham
« on: Wednesday 16 November 22 16:12 GMT (UK)  »
birth cert applied for. keeping GRO in business

luke edward

9
Lancashire / Re: descendants of crowther family who in 1901 census lived in Oldham
« on: Wednesday 16 November 22 11:39 GMT (UK)  »
I have got loads of certificates but unfortunately not Sophia's birth certificate. I have kept the GRO in business with all the certificates i have ordered over the years.
luke edward

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