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Messages - tamarclaire

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1
Rutland / Re: BURTON John of Oakham Rutland
« on: Tuesday 25 November 25 20:58 GMT (UK)  »
Thank you so much for your post.  It is really good to hear from someone else with the same questions about another son of John Burton and Ann Barnett.  William Burton baptised 30 Sept 1787 at Oakham is an older brother of Andrew baptised at Oakham on 10 Sept 1790.  William is my 3x great grandfather which I think makes your husband and I fourth cousins once removed.

It is interesting that your mother-in-law was told by her grandmother that she was descended from a very wealthy family in Rutland.  My mother was told by her mother (who was a Burton) that there was blue blood in the family and that a coachman had apparently run away with a girl from a well-to-do family.  I decided in the end that this was a cover story for the fact that my great grandmother’s parents weren’t actually married and then didn’t give it any further thought!

Looking at Rev Bartin Burton’s Will, he left £400 each to his three younger children, John, Cornelius and Mary. According to the Bank of England Inflation Calculator £400 would be worth £63,678.71 today.  This again does not tie in with Bartin having a son who worked a labourer. I have tried to find out more information about Bartin’s son John but so far nothing has come to light except the Burton/Barnett marriage and also some family trees saying that John died in India but I don’t know where that information originally comes from.

I have done an DNA test and the results are on Ancestry.  I will send you a private message with the details. It would be really good if we could find a definite known descendant of Bartin Burton who had also DNA tested to see if there were any shared matches.  But as you say, if Augustin is John’s real father, then there could still be connections further back to the more illustrious part of the family.

Who did Andrew marry?  I have a possibly marriage for Andrew to a Mary Young on 9/2/1813 at Oakham.  William married Alice Hill (from Braunston) on 7/11/1809 at Oakham and they had 10 children; I am descended from their oldest son William who was born in 1810 and in Leicester.



2
Rutland / Re: BURTON John of Oakham Rutland
« on: Thursday 11 April 24 11:50 BST (UK)  »

Just for the record I agree with the comments made by hanes teulu & Jamot.

Regards Colin


Thanks very much Colin.  It's really helpful to have three other people coming to the same conclusion.

Thank you too for the other  information you posted.  The marriage of William Burton to Alice Hill on 7 November 1809 at Oakham ties in with the records which I have and he is the same William whose death is registered in the Dec Quarter 1871 in Leicester aged 89.

3
Rutland / Re: BURTON John of Oakham Rutland
« on: Wednesday 10 April 24 20:29 BST (UK)  »
There are no further details about the apprentice record, unfortunately, but its just an index from a CD compiled by the Family History Society from records held at Leicester Archives, so there may be more information on the original document.

The accompanying notes say:

"Parish Poor Law Index 1598 – 1940s

This is a copy of the original index produced in 2003 on the first Poor Law CD and covers all the Poor Law cases found on the 20,000 Index Cards in the ROLLR*.   The information has been extracted from records found in the Parish Chests of the individual parishes
".

*Record Office for Leicestershire, Leicester & Rutland

Thank you very much for the details describing the contents of the CD.  I will maybe contact the Leicestershire Record Office to see if they have more information about William Burton's apprentice record.

4
Rutland / Re: BURTON John of Oakham Rutland
« on: Wednesday 10 April 24 20:07 BST (UK)  »
I wonder if this is William Burton, Bartin and Mary's son, bap 1736

Lincolnshire Chronicle, 9 Feb 1838
Deaths
On the 1st inst, at Bristol, W Bartin Burton, Esq, formerly of Burley, in the County of Rutland, and a Captain in the army, age 73

Baptism (FindMyPast transcript)
4 Sep 1763, Wm son of Mr Wm and Maria Burton, Oakham
However, the "original" (a manuscript transcript) reads -
4 Sep 1763, Wm Bartin son of Mr Wm and Maria Burton.

A William Burton married an Anna Maria Brown, 21 Jan 1762, both of Oakham.

Anna Maria Burton, wife of William Burton, buried 16 Feb 1891, age 51, Burley.

"Mr" is synonymous with "Gent" 

Although there is a very slight discrepancy in age, Captain William Bartin Burton formerly of Burly in Rutland who died in 1838 does appear to be the William Bartin Burton baptised at Oakham on 4 September 1763, the son of Mr William and Anna Maria Burton and the grandson of Rev. Bartin Burton.  William Burton (Bartin's son) was baptised 10 Dec 1736 at Oakham and married Anna Maria Brown on 21 Jan 1762 at Oakham.

5
Rutland / Re: BURTON John of Oakham Rutland
« on: Wednesday 10 April 24 19:26 BST (UK)  »
I can't speak for Colin, but personally I don't believe that this (your) William is the grandson of Bartin Burton.

The existence of the removal order indicates that as well as being illiterate and a labourer (as you already pointed out) he was also receiving or at risk of needing parish relief.

Bartin's PCC will is available online and does mention a son John, but it seems to me that people have simply jumped on it without question or further investigation.  Good for you for not doing the same!

Thanks very much for posting the details of the removal order which I had not come across before. and which is very interesting   I have records for all the children listed, except for Robert so I will investigate further!

Thanks very much too for sharing your thoughts on William not being the grandson of Rev. Bartin Burton which has added weight to the doubts I was already having.  It does appear that the fact that William's parents married in Oakham has led to the belief that his father John must have been born in Oakham and this has then led to the assumption that he must have been Bartin's son John who was baptised in 1740. 

Re. the 1801 apprentice record for William Burton to Thomas Clarke.  Does it give the trade that William was apprenticed into?

6
Rutland / Re: BURTON John of Oakham Rutland
« on: Wednesday 10 April 24 17:45 BST (UK)  »

I do not believe that this is the correct William.

1871 Asylum St. West Leicester
BURTON   William   Head   W   88 (1783)   Dyer   Rutland   Oakham      
BURTON   Sarah   Dau   U   50   Chairwoman   Leicestershire   Leicester   Df&dmb   
BURTON   Mary   Dau   U   47   Trimmer & Dyer   Leicestershire   Leicester      

1861 - Ruding Street, West Leicester.
BURTON   William   Head   M   74   Trimmer   Rutland   -      
BURTON   Alice   Wife   M   72   House Wife   Rutland   -      
BURTON   Sarah Dau   U   37Shirt Maker Leicestershire Leicester   
D & D
   
BURTON   Mary   Dau   U   34   Spinner   Leicestershire   Leicester      
BURTON   Thomas   Son   M   30   Machinist   Leicestershire   Leicester      
BURTON   Elizabeth   Sonwif   M   28   Dress Maker   Leicestershire   Ansty      
BURTON   Alice   Grndau   U   9   Scholar   Leicestershire   Leicester      
BURTON   John Thomas   Grnson   U   7   Scholar   Leicestershire   Leicester      

Colin

Hello Colin,

Thanks very much for your reply. I'm a bit confused. Please can you explain why you don't believe that this is the correct William.  Do you mean the William on the 1871 census, William on the 1861 census or both? 

You have highlighted Sarah Burton.  Sarah was baptised 22/7/1821 at St Mary de Castro in Leicester and was deaf and dumb from birth.  I think her occupation on the 1871 census should have been 'charwoman' and not 'chairwoman'. On the 1881 census she is age 60 and living with her niece and family.  She was buried in Welford Road Cemetery 1886 aged 64 on 13 February 1886.

7
Rutland / Re: BURTON John of Oakham Rutland
« on: Wednesday 10 April 24 13:46 BST (UK)  »
1871 Asylum St. West Leicester
BURTON   William   Head   W   88 (1783)   Dyer   Rutland   Oakham     
BURTON   Sarah   Dau   U   50   Chairwoman   Leicestershire   Leicester     
BURTON   Mary   Dau   U   47   Trimmer & Dyer   Leicestershire   Leicester   

The 1871 census is the right William but this census was taken not long before he died and I believe his age is incorrect and should be 84.

On the 1841 census William is age 50 living with his family in Bridge Street, Leicester.   Occupation - Dyer 
On the 1851 census he is age 64 living with his family in Sarah Street, Leicester.  Occupation - Trimmer and Dyer.  Place of birth - Oakham, Rutland
On the 1861 census he is age 74 and living with his family at 50 Ruding Street, Leicester.  Occupation - Trimmer.  Place of birth Rutland


8
Rutland / Re: BURTON John of Oakham Rutland
« on: Wednesday 10 April 24 13:26 BST (UK)  »
''This is an extract from Thomas Wotton's 1741 "The english baronetage: ...". It's reasonable to assume that the Rev Bartin Burton links back to the Bartin mentioned here?
A date reference point is " ... 1 Queen Mary ..." which, I think, translates to Regnal year July 1553 to July 1554.''


Thanks very much for sending the extract. Yes, Rev Bartin Burton (1700-1764) is the great grandson of the Bartin mentioned here who was buried at Oakham 12 Dec 1612.

9
Rutland / Re: BURTON John of Oakham Rutland
« on: Monday 08 April 24 20:08 BST (UK)  »
Hi Colin and hanes teula

Thank you both very much for your helpful replies.

I have had a look at the clergy database website and it has some really interesting information about Rev. Bartin Burton and the parishes in which he served.  If I can be sure of the link to Bartin through John Burton then Bartin would be my 5x great grandfather.

hanes teula -  I have replied to your PM.  it will be really good to find out more about the dispute over Andrew Burton's Will.

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