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Messages - MattieC

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1
Isle of Man / Re: Margaret Church
« on: Thursday 15 September 11 09:03 BST (UK)  »
Thank you again for your prompt response.
Henry's occupation is listed as fisherman and his father, also Henry (rather a lot of them) was listed as sailor, deceased.
I have not applied for his marriage certificate to Elizabeth and maybe I should do, I will follow that up thank you.
No he did not retire in the same year as his daughter's marriage (Matilda) he retired after 25 years service with Liverpool police in 1908.  Matilda married 3/9/1911 and her father's occupation was listed as "Inspector".
Matilda reported Henry's death in 1939 and listed his occupation as "retired police constable" so I don't know where this "Inspector" has come from.
I have not traced the boys' marriages but I do know that Elizabeth's status on 1911 census has her at the top of the family, firstly listed as wife then crossed out and "head" entered.  I can find no trace of Henry whatsoever though he must still have been alive.
There is nobody left in the family other than me and as I was born when my parents were 41 and 42 they did not speak of their past.  My brothers died aged 27 (1958) and 66 (2003).  I don't suppose I was all that interested when a teenager so I have to do this the hard way and help from people like yourself and others.
I am grateful for the time you have spent on me and I will not give up as I find it all so fascinating and wish I had spent more time talking to my parents about their past.  A timely reminder to all children and parents to start talking about their past lives and not to "pooh pooh" the past as ancient!

2
Isle of Man / Re: Margaret Church
« on: Wednesday 14 September 11 21:10 BST (UK)  »
Have just remembered I have Henry and Ruth's marriage certificate and the birth certificate for their son Henry.  I know there are a lot of coincidences yet I can't get my head round how a humble fisherman who couldn't write (he signed the certificates with a cross) could possibly have become a policeman.  Does that make any sense or am I being a bit picky?  I would have thought he would at least had to have been able to write to join the police force even then.

3
Isle of Man / Re: Margaret Church
« on: Wednesday 14 September 11 15:32 BST (UK)  »
Thank you for your information some of which I already had.  I shall have to get a copy of Ruth and Henry's marriage certificate and delve a little deeper into John and "granny".
I have seen on Matilda's mariage certificate her father's occupation as "inspector" and I know that Henry retired from Liverpool police in 1908.  I have posted a photograph for possible identification and am wondering if this photo has something to do with an inspector's uniform with a Trinity House  connection as my brother said he thought somebody had something to do with Trinity House.
There is also the whereabouts of Henry on the 1911 census as he is not listed and I cannot find him listed on board a, ship or lighthouse, any ideas?
Thank you once again for your help which has proved invaluable.   

4
Isle of Man / Re: Margaret Church
« on: Wednesday 14 September 11 10:58 BST (UK)  »
Thank you very much.  I too have come across the coincidence of the name Churcher as opposed to Church which ties up with wife Ruth and son Henry both born in Cornwall.  Cannot quite make the link with IOM and Liverpool as 1881 according to another post has my grandmother Margaret listed as being on the IOM and yet also with parents Henry, Ruth and sibling Henry living in Liverpool! The coincidence of Henry Churcher being a policeman and married to Ruth is not to be ignored yet I cannot get the link between fisherman, as listed in the marriage records and policeman as listed soon afterwards in 1881 Liverpool. I have never heard of Hannah Churcher whose baptism details appear in Edge Hill St Catherine that is a complete revelation to me.  Is the Edge Hill the one in Birmingham? 
I have traced many dead ends for Henry Church and Churcher born in Middlesex London around 1858-60 but none of them seem to appear in Liverpool at the right time.  I also thought it quite a leap in those days to come from London to Cornwall and found a Post Office sorter who moved from London to Exeter with his son Henry who later also joined the Post Office and moved to Bedminster Bristol. 
As you may see I am new to all this so any ideas would be gratefully accepted.

5
Family History Beginners Board / Matilda Massey Nelson
« on: Tuesday 13 September 11 10:37 BST (UK)  »
Does anybody know of any living relatives of Matilda Massey Nelson (nee Church) who married Norman Whittam (William?) Nelson on 3rd September 1911?
I want to know anything about her father, Henry Church, who was a policeman in Liverpool retiring in 1908.  I believe him to be my Gt gt grandfather born in London around 1860.    ???

6
Isle of Man / Re: Margaret Church
« on: Saturday 10 September 11 11:54 BST (UK)  »
Thank you so much for your help.  Unfortunately I too have found the same details as you and thought that both Ruth and Henry were born in Newlyn.  What puzzles me is that having gone on to the Cornish BMD site the evidence of Henry, Ruth and their son Henry seems to overwhelmingly suggest that the surname is Churcher and not Church.  I do know that there were a lot of variants etc. in the past and it does look as though this could well be my gt. gt. grandfather.  But....... I find that they are all listed as living on the IOM in 1881 and yet they also appear as Church on the same census for England as living in Liverpool.
Henry seems to have made a great leap from fisherman to policeman which I found rather hard to believe as I would not have thought he would have had the education.  He may have had a lifelong yearning for the sea and that was the path he took, only settling down to something with better prospects and wage once he was married and had a son and daughter to provide for.
I have posted a photograph of the man I believe to be my gt. gt. grandfather asking for info. as to the uniform and received a reply that suggested it might be a commissionnaire's uniform from Liverpool harbour board.  This information has been welcomed as my brother had said he thought somebody in the family was involved in Trinity House, also my father wanted to go to sea and his grandfather said it was too dangerous and prevented him from going.
Henry served in Liverpool City Police for 25 years retiring in 1908 though he is listed as being a policeman in 1881.
Thank you once more and any further ideas or info. will be much appreciated. 

7
Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition / Re: Uniform Identification
« on: Saturday 10 September 11 11:02 BST (UK)  »
Thanks for that info.  I did send a copy of the photo to Liverpool Maritime Museum but they did not recognise it, they too suggested it might be a commissionnaire's uniform but gave me no idea what sort of commissionnaire.  The info. re - docks and harbourmaster rings a bell with the Trinity house connection which my brother (now deceased) once told me, that somebody in the family was connected with Trinity House.
Is there anywhere that I would be able to find more info. and uniform pictures for this particular area as I was unable to find anything on Trinity House website?  I am new to all this so it is possible I was looking in the wrong place.
Thank you so so much as I am getting a slow step closer to finding out about this lovely old man who was greatly loved by my father (it was his grandfather) and my mother. 
I do remember that my father once told me he had wanted to go to sea when he was a boy and had a life-long love of ships and liners but was prevented in so doing because his grandfather had refused to sign the forms saying it was too dangerous.

8
Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition / Uniform Identification
« on: Thursday 08 September 11 08:54 BST (UK)  »
Can anybody tell me what sort of uniform this is please?  I believe the photo is of my Gt gt grandfather who served with Liverpool City police for 25 years and retired in 1908.


9
Isle of Man / Margaret Church
« on: Thursday 08 September 11 08:28 BST (UK)  »
Can anybody tell me why I cannot find any evidence of my grandmother's birth on IOM in 1880?  In 1881 she was listed on the census as living in Liverpool with her parents Henry and Ruth Church and brother Henry. On the 1911 census I have found her place of birth as Castletown IOM yet there seems to be no record of her and I have enquired of the IOM genealogists.  Just a shot in the dark but could she have been adopted?
Any help much appreciated.  MattieC  ???

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