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Messages - Misterfyer

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Lancashire / Re: Walton Park Cemetery, Liverpool
« on: Wednesday 10 August 11 15:04 BST (UK)  »
Thanks. I'm also curious about the term "public plot". Is this necessarily a pauper's grave?

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Lancashire / Re: Walton Park Cemetery, Liverpool
« on: Wednesday 10 August 11 12:49 BST (UK)  »
One can get a better picture of the situation at Walton Park cemetery by GOING there, as I did yesterday (via Rice Lane City Farm, Rawcliffe Road). The researchers there are quite knowledgeable. The comment that information may be out of date is somewhat pointless, since that applies to all information. What is of more value is to have some idea of the actual probability of it being correct. Considerable research has been done at Walton Park cemetery, and this is in print. Whilst available information may not be complete and could also be flawed in some respects, it is better than speculation.
As I understand it, the cemetery dates back to the mid 19th century. There are something like 250,000 interments there. The cemetery is still in use today and there are occasional burials there. For the first 70 or so years of its existence proper plans of the site were seemingly not made, although the layout even from that time is fairly clear. However, since the early part of the last century plans were made and are in existence. Thus with a full plot reference it could be possible to exactly locate a grave site from this period. I say 'could' because there are areas of destruction (largely by trees) and also grassed over areas that would make it difficult to pinpoint a grave within more than a few metres. In some areas many of the masonry footings are evident and many headstones are still standing, although some have been moved either by vandals or by the authorities for reasons such as safety. These areas (of footings and headstones etc.) are not visible in satellite pictures because they are under well established wooded areas. One part of the cemetery in the NE corner (probably  an area used in the 19th century) no longer exists as it was used to build housing for prison staff. This is visible in satellite pictures. Some of the grave footings bear the plot reference and some have the masons name, etc.

So much for the layout. As for WHO is buried there, the records are probably almost complete - although possibly many unnamed souls are buried there (but even these are probably still recorded). However, it is only since proper plans started to be made (about 100 years ago) that it might be possible to discover exactly WHO is buried exactly WHERE.

Although there are pauper's graves and workhouse graves at Walton Park cemetery, there are other types. I am not sure that anyone can be clear about the meaning of these terms. I'm not convinced that a "public plot" is necessarily a "pauper's" grave, or that it was paid for by the parish. I was told that a "public plot" was one that could be bought by the public for a sum between 5 shillings and 15 shillings (although I don't know when this was). It could be that part of the area is not simply a cemetery, but a 'churchyard' since at one time the chapel there was consecrated (it's not now). Is there a difference between a 'cemetery' and a 'churchyard'.

The grave reference I had was not complete. There are four elements to a full reference {avenue (A-Z)} {cardinal direction (North, South, East, etc.)} {section} {row}. I'm not quite sure which order they should be in, but I think that if you have them in any order it would be possible to make sense of them and find the grave.  I only had "plot 11D". The 'D' gave me the avenue. '11' gave the section. I was missing the cardinal direction, so I didn't know which side of the avenue it was - it could have been either NE or SW in my case. And I was missing the row number - in my case there were 3 rows on each side of the avenue. I think the row would be given by a lower case letter, a through to f.

Good luck to others. M.

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Lancashire / Re: Walton Park Cemetery, Liverpool
« on: Monday 08 August 11 19:34 BST (UK)  »
Have discovered that Alan O'Toole is no longer in the picture (probably died about 10 tears ago).
Also, the lady to contact at Rice Lane City farm is Roma, not Lisa. Roma located (almost) our grave within an hour or so.
Also, half the records are held by the Church of England and the other half by Liverpool City Records Office. I am visitiing tomorrow. M.

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Lancashire / Re: Walton Park Cemetery, Liverpool
« on: Monday 08 August 11 12:58 BST (UK)  »
Hi,
Quite by chance I stumbled on RootsChat and the thread started in May by a lady in Australia. This happened because I too am seeking info about my grandfather.  Hence, I pass on a few scraps of info that may be of interest.
Firstly, my grandfather was interred at Walton Park cemetery, Liverpool. But . . . wait for it . . . in 1973 !  Hence the cemetery was still in use at least up until that time. He too had a pauper's grave - at least that is how I interpret the term "public plot". He certainly died destitute.
Secondly, access is indeed through Rawcliffe Road, Liverpool; courtesy of Rice Lane City Farm. A lady (at the farm) called Lisa on 0151 530 1066 might arrange access.
Thirdly, I have a letter (dated 28th January 1994) from the doctor who signed my grandfather's death certificate on 22nd March 1973 in which he states "The Cemetery belongs to the Church of England, and the records are kept at St. Nicholas Church, Liverpool Parish Church, Old Church Yard, Chapel Street, Liverpool, 2." and further, "Mr. Alan O'Toole, who is in charge of Walton Park Cemetery, will send you a photograph of the grave if you get in touch with him."
That's as far as I've got. I hope to go very soon to visit the site. Hope that info interests someone. M.

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