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Hi Snowyday and many thanks for your post.

After a quick look I think our families may well be related, but that we are not talking about the same Benjamin and Francis James.

My Francis James was born Frances Ann Hendy (Orielbenfro gave me some terrific help earlier in this thread) born 1846 I believe in St Florence. However she did not marry my Benjamin James until 1876 (she was his second wife) and they had 6 children - Annie, John (Jack), Thomas, George, Benjamin and Albert (my Grandfather) - so no James Henry James. Apart from my Grandfather the only one I personally remember is my Uncle Jack - he died in 1965 and he lived in Pembroke Dock.

However my Benjamin James also had 5 children by his first wife (Rachel Thomas who died in 1974 a few days after the birth of their fifth child). Their second child was Sarah Ann James born 30 April 1865 in Monkton. They are in Maidenwells in the 1871 census. I wonder if this is the same Sarah Ann James who is your Great Grandmother?

By extra coincidence on the very same page of the 1871 Census for Maidenwells I find two more of my ancestors - David Thomas and Mary Thomas (nee Hitchings) whose granddaughter Beatrice married Albert James (i.e. my grandparents) much later in 1910. Maidenwell residents of that time seem to be closely connected!

If you would like to make contact I can send you a personal message with my email address

Kind regards

Brian W

Orielbenfro - Apologies if I suggested something foolish, it was born of ignorance and incomplete understanding on my side.

Following your tip I have checked the Will and it is intriguing. Since David Thomas was born in ca 1828, and William in ca 1826, they would not have been born when the Will was signed in 1825 - hence there are probably at least 4 missing children of John and Sarah, if Sarah is indeed the same.   

So if Sarah Richard(s) is the same Sarah Thomas, then although 1807 to 1821 would seem to be a long time to have only 2 children, but 4 or 5 might be more likely (plus possibly some infant mortalities). However 16 and 17 would seem to be very young for a couple to wed, but probably I am using modern norms to judge.

Once again many thanks for your help, and I am happy to leave this here and follow up other branches.

Kind regards

Brian

Via censuses I have discovered that my G-G-Grandparents David Thomas (b Wiston ca 1827) and Mary Thomas nee Hitchings lived in Lydstep (1851) and Maidenwells (1861-1881). Mary's birthplace is given variously and confusingly as Carew, Jeffreyston and Cresselly, and she was born ca 1825. I know Mary's father was William Hitchings, a labourer.

Via someone else's family tree I see that a Mary Hitchings b 1825 was a twin of a Martha Hitchings, with father Wiliam Hitchings. Martha's birthplace is given as Manorbier. I am very wary of data in other published family trees, and I wonder if anyone is able to check Mary's birth and if my Mary is the same as Martha's twin?

The only possibiility for Mary I can find in the 1841 census is in the census for Williamston & Begelly with a 15 year old Mary Hitchings living in Begelly/Langdan but not with her family.

Kind regards

Brian

Hi Dale

I hope you don't mind me entering this thread. I was first interested because I have two John and Mary Phillips in my ancestry from South Pembrokeshire. My John Snr was born in 1797 in Tenby and married Mary born in Carew in 1805 (I don't know her maiden name). They had a son John born 1842 who married Mary Jane Thomas. However I am sure John Jnr did not go to NZ since I have a picture of him in ca 1904 with Mary and their 10 children at Hollybush farm near Tenby. So I am sure we are not talking about the same family.

But then I remembered something else. I visited an old university friend in New Zealand about 25 years ago in Matamata. Among the places he took me was to a farm nearby run by a lady called Nan Phillips who I seem to remember came from Wales (that's why I was taken there). I never discovered if Nan was short for Nancy or that she was a grandmother. Might this have been one of your family? 

Not any help to you at all, but I would be interested to know if she was related to your deputation from Pembrokeshire

Regards

Brian

Orielbenfro

Once again I am indebted to you and your expertise, and for your kind and unbelievably rapid response. Very many thanks.

I had also thought about the possibility of patronyms so the comments from your background experience are very welcome. I am now speculating that maybe someone making a family tree (and one of the trees concerned had over 10,000 people all over the world) may have mistakenly entered the name of the witness James Williams into the system, and it has somehow emerged as the father of Thomas James. Or the Thomas James in the trees is a different Thomas James and not the father of my James James. Also I can find no reference anywhere to a Margaret Rowland, so I am becoming more confident of Thomas and Ann James as my ancestors, and not Thomas and Margaret, especially with the Ann James in the same house as James James in the 1841 Stackpole Elidor census.

Thank you also for the information re Sarah Griffiths and her possible parents. The 1851 Manorbier census has Sarah born in Lampeter (I think Lampeter Velfrey) ca 1813. Is this in the area covered by Pembroke St Michael?

I have noted another member of this Pembrokeshire board looking for Ann(e) Gibbs in Warwick and I will mail him.

I will probably plan a trip over to the UK and visit Pembrokeshire next year, and would be delighted to thank you in person if feasible.

Once again many thanks

Brian W