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Messages - IvanKing

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1
Argyllshire / Re: Daniel Bell supposedly born 1821 Kilmichael, Glassary
« on: Tuesday 22 November 11 03:06 GMT (UK)  »
Hi Graham
Did you make any further progress on Daniel/Donald Bell after the message interchange with Monica?

I've just come across your work as I'm doing some investigations for my daughter-in-law's tree.  I'm now pretty sure that my daughter in law is descended from the Jessie Ann Bell line, but I will need to order a couple of certificates to be certain of the connection.  I saw your GGrandfather, John Smith Bell, as one of the children born around Portland to Daniel and Elizabeth.

Is this is the Daniel Bell in the 1856 Vic electoral roll for Normanby? ... it lists Daniel Bell as a sawyer, of Sevenmile bridge, Bolwarra - I see from Google Maps that Bolwarra is part to Portland, Vic.

Regards
Ivan King, of Kiama Downs, NSW

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2
Denbighshire / Re: Kyrkes at Gwersyllt
« on: Thursday 02 June 11 07:43 BST (UK)  »
Hi all

Some issues answered,and further clues available.  The baptism records for Minera have come on line these last few days.   see http://minerahistory.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=recent.

It helps me a lot, because I had been trying to attach the Ellen Blundell that was visiting James Kyrke in the 1951 census to be a daughter of George, but I couldn't make the right connections.  At least this list shows that George did actually have a daughter Ellen.

Also the list shows that Richard Venables Kyrke (Snr) and Harriet Ann had a couple of daughters in addition to Richard Venables Jnr.

Ivan


3
Denbighshire / Re: Kyrkes at Gwersyllt
« on: Thursday 02 June 11 05:50 BST (UK)  »
A few questions now:

a) there's a Frederick Kyrke born in Wrexham district in Jun qtr 1841.  Is he another  son to Richard and Jane?

b) who's the Fanny Venables Kyrke born in Wrexham District in Mar qtr 1853.  Is she a final daughter of Richard and Jane when they moved back from France, if they moved back by then;  or is she a daughter for Richard (Jnr) and Fanny, born between Dora and Arthur - the latter option sounds the most logical.

c) who's the Mary A Kyrke born and died Dec qtr 1866 in Clerkenwell, London?  Is it the first child of James Arnold and Maria??

d) who's the Margaret Kryke who died Mar qtr 1844 in Bolton District (Manchester)?  Is it any relation at all??

e) there's an Ellen Kyrke, born about 1864 in Liverpool, school teacher, unmarried, who appears in the 1901 census visiting her brother Alfred Chresholm in Great Cosby, and he was born in Scotland.  Apart from not knowing why she and her brother don't have the same surname, does anyone know if she fits into the family?

In the previous posting I have not covered the families of the brothers of Richard Venables Kyrke (Snr) - of which James had a daughter Frances who is said to have died young; and George had a at least three chilrden, including only one son, Rev Richard Kyrke, who married Priscilla Catherine Billinge; other two brothers died without marrying.

4
Denbighshire / Re: Kyrkes at Gwersyllt
« on: Thursday 02 June 11 05:47 BST (UK)  »
Response to interalia
Thanks, you've added a bit more to resolving the riddles of the Kyrkes.  Incorporating what you have given, and my searches, I get the following:

RICHARD VENABLES KYRKE (Snr) (1792 - 1868)
Married first:  Harriet Ann Jones (marriage probably was about 1820, but don't know where)
     and only child seems to be RICHARD VENABLES KYRKE (Jnr) (1822-1899), who married
     Fanny Warbrick in 1849, and had 3 children:
             1)RICHARD HENRY VENABLES KYRKE (1821-1896), who married twice and seems to have
                   had only one child EVELYN ANNE/ANNIE VENABLES KYRKE (1883-1948), who
                   married John Spottiswoode.
             2)DORA VENABLES KYRKE (1851-1904, who married Joseph Drake and does't seem
                  to have any children that I can find
             3)ARTHUR VENABLES KYRKE (1855-1921), who married Annie Upham Dommett and
                  worked as a solicitor in Chard with her father, and had 6 children I can find

Married second: Jane Frances Horseman (marriage 1832 at Toxteth Park Liverpool), and there
      seem to be 11 children:
             1)WILLIAM HENRY KYRKE (1833-1922) .. found him in 1871 census, with mother
                      Jane in Hoylake, Cheshire, but can't find him elsewhere
             2)EDMUND KYRKE (you give birth year of abt 1837 which aligns with the 1861 Census
                      when he is a sailor, with his father in Wales and mother in Hoose Cheshire.  There is
                      an Edmund Kyrke in 1841 census, aged 6 [ie birth abt 1835], living in Toxteth Park
                      in household with Amelia Horseman,who I guess would be his mother's sister.  Can't
                      find him elsewhere.
             3)AMELIA FRANCES KYRKE (she was one of my waifs and strays - didn't know who she
                      belonged to, so thanks for giving her to Richard and Jane. Found her in 1861, 71
                      and 81 census as governess/school teacher, but then she disappears, unless she
                      is the Amelia/Amy F Richardson in the 1891 and 1901 census, but I can't find
                      any marriage.  There is death of Amelia F Richardson at right age in 1926;
                      and deaths of Amelia Kirk at right age in 1908 and 1932.  So don't know what
                      might the correct one.
             4)ELINOR VENABLES KYRKE (she was buried 10 Apr 1841 in Wrexham or close by - the
                      Flintshire records office has copy of her burial certificate with other papers.  Don't
                      know when she was born - can't find anything on BMD.  I assume she was daughter
                      of Jane, rather than of Harriet, but no evidence to hand for which one was her
                      mother.
             5)CHARLES EDWARD KYRKE (baptised at Wrexham 13 May 1836.  Died Jun qtr 1838
                      in West Derby)
             6)ARNOLD JAMES KYRKE (baptised 2 Mar 1838.  Died Mar qtr 1840 in Wrexham district
                      - presumably at home at Summer Hill)
             7)ELINOR JANE KYRKE (baptism 1 Mar 1843 at St George, Douglas, Isle of Man.  Then
                      see her in 1891 census with sister Mary at Great Cosby - no other census
                      references that I can see.  Died Dec qtr 1933 in Stroud, Gloucestershire).
             8)JAMES ARNOLD KYRKE (born about 1845 France, married Maria Keen Viney in 1866,
                      and died Mar qtr 1931 in Croydon.  10 children I have been able to find)
             9)MARY ISABELLA KYRKE (born about 1847 France.  Then is governess/teacher in each
                      census from 1861, and died Mar qtr 1933 in Cirencester.)
           10)GEORGE ALBERT KYRKE (born about 1850 France and died Jun qtr 1923 in Hackney.
                      He's in the 1871 and later censuses, but can't find him in 1861 when many of the
                      rest of family are back in UK.
           11)VERNON KYRKE (born about 1851 in France - not 1841.  I find him in 61 and 71 census,
                      but not later.  No death in BMD that I can find.

So, Richard Venables Kyrke (Snr) was born and lived around Wrexham till about 1841-1842, then went to Isle of Man for a short period (assuming he was there with wife when Eleanor Venables Kyrke was born); then about 1844 they moved to France (to Avranches, or Granville, in Normandy) - don't know why they did this or what he did in France -  and sometime before the 1861 census moved back to England/Wales.  A couple of the children don't appear in the censuses till after 1861 so it may be that they remained in France after parents and younger siblings returned to England.


5
Denbighshire / Re: Kyrkes at Gwersyllt
« on: Monday 09 May 11 03:14 BST (UK)  »
Response to Smarlow57

Rev Richard Kyrke (1820-1897, and married Priscilla Catherine Billinge in 1851) is the only son of George Kyrke, who is one of the brothers of Richard Venables Kyrke (1792-1868).  I am not sure whether this Richard Venables Kyrke had the second name of Venables, or whether it was only his son who took it on ... in that branch of the family tree they all seem to be named "Venables".

Rev Richard Kyrke and Priscilla Billinge had the following children:
Helena Baker Kyrke (always called "Nell" in the family) - 1852-1934, married Rev Jeremiah Chaffers-Welsh ar St Asaph 1875, and moved to Australia in 1890
Priscilla Catherine Kyrke (1853-1899 - same name as her mother) - unmarried
Richard Ashton Kyrke (1855-1936)
Charles Richard Kyrke (1857-1911) - I think unmarried
Emily (1861-1945) - unmarried

As far as I can tell, Rev  Richard Kyrke had two siblings:
Hannah (1815-1896) married to Rev William Dickson Blundell
Harriet (1818-1886) married 1848 to Rev Thomas Brown

6
Denbighshire / Re: Kyrkes at Gwersyllt
« on: Friday 22 April 11 12:18 BST (UK)  »
Hi Kyrke searchers
I'm trying to sort out the tree for Rev Richard Kyrke (born c1820 - most censuses give birth at Wrexham; the 1871 census gives it as Bryn Mally nr Wacham [which I interpret as Wrexham]).  He died 1897 in Hampstead, and most of his life was spent in England.

The Oxford Alumni record gives him as only son of George, of Wrexham. He has a sister Harriet (1818-1886, married 1848 at St Asaph to Rev Thomas Brown).  Any other sisters anyone knows of?

Is this Richard the son of George (1781- 1859) who was record in the 1851 census staying with James Kyrke, and both were born in Wrexham - that is how I decipher the census record of their birthplace?  Or is there some other George about the place that I'm looking for?  Also, I wasn't clear on the posts whether James and George are brothers.

Note that the Richard I am looking at is a different one from Richard Venables Kyrke.  In my line of Kyrke's, none has been given the second name of Venables.

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