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Messages - UKgirl

Pages: [1] 2 3 4 ... 37
1
Lancashire / Re: Elon Musk's Liverpool Ancestors
« on: Sunday 22 June 25 23:40 BST (UK)  »
Good news for DianaCanada

https://www.ancestry.com/search/collections/2972/records/2861770?tid=&pid=&queryId=2a50adac-73df-43c4-88d6-21b732c9e370&_phsrc=Rmb202&_phstart=successSource

1831 Christ Church, Hulme baptisms (same page)

1831 Feb 9, Samuel son of Joseph and Ellen Hibbert, born Jan 11 at Jackson's Lane, Hulme
1831 Feb 13, John son of George and Margaret Kilgow, born Jan 29 at Christ Church Square, Hulme

These 2 baptisms are next to each other (consecutive) on the same page.

[Samuel's record is a bit tricky to read, because at a later time, the church has squeezed in another baptism in tiny writing between the lines (that of Thomas son of David & Mary Mordock?).]

Also, similar to the Kilgour children that I have listed above, Samuel Hibbert also has a later baptism at the Cathedral on Dec 18th.

It seems clear that there was a strong connection between these 2 familes (sons the same age, families close neighbours, attending the same church).

There is not doubt that the George Kilgour who was a witness to the 1829 marriage of Joseph Hibbert is this same George Kilgour, father of Emma and co.

UKgirl

2
Lancashire / Re: Elon Musk's Liverpool Ancestors
« on: Sunday 22 June 25 23:06 BST (UK)  »
1820 Oct 30, George Killgour married Margaret Reddish at Manchester, St. Mary

Children of George Kilgour & Margaret:
Baptisms
1821 Apr 8, James, Hulme Christ Church – Richardson’s Buildings, Hulme
1822 Sep 1, Samuel (Kilgann), Manchester Cathedral (Manchester, Cotton Spinner)
1824 Sep 19, Mary Ann (Killgour), Manchester Cathedral (Manchester, Carder)
1828 Dec 25, Emma, Hulme St. George, (Hulme, Spinner) (late Reddish)
1831 Feb 13, John (Kilgow), Hulme Christ Church – Christ Church Square, Hulme
1834 Nov 2, Hannah, Manchester Cathedral (Hulme, Carter/Carder)
1837 Nov 26, Matilda, Manchester Cathedral, (Hulme, Spinner)
[also previously 1837 Feb 1, Metilda, Hulme Christ Church - 3, Christ Church Square, Hulme]
1839 Mar 31, Margaret, Manchester Cathedral (Hulme, Spinner)
[also previously 1839 Feb 17, Margaret (Kilgoure), Hulme Christ Church - Worcester Street, Hulme]

Hulme, Christ Church = non-conformist & non-parochial registers

Note: Baptisms at Christ Church, Hulme give place of birth (abode?)

UKgirl

3
Lancashire / Re: Elon Musk's Liverpool Ancestors
« on: Sunday 22 June 25 22:45 BST (UK)  »
Note to atlantikman - error regarding year of marriage

Quote:
I did a search on FindMyPast for a Marsh and Kilgour marriage but without success.  Then I searched just using Emma Kilgour’s name for a marriage and found a record: in 1859 a Edward Powell had married Emma Kilgour in Manchester.


1852, Sep. 20, Manchester Cathedral
Edward Powell married Emma Kilgour (father, George Kilgour) witness, Hannah Kilgour.

Emma (born 1828) & Hannah (baptised 1834) were sisters, parents George Kilgour & Margaret Reddish.

UKgirl

4
Lancashire / Re: Elon Musk's Liverpool Ancestors
« on: Sunday 22 June 25 15:57 BST (UK)  »
Re. the Nanney Ridings marriage.

This too is on FreeREG.

It took place at the same church as the Ann Lees marriage:
St. Mary, Prestwich. This is not Oldham.

The witnesses are identical - and present at several of the marriages in that church (also for Joseph Hibbert married in 1820), so perhaps the witnesses' names cannot shed any light on family/friendship connections? They may just be church "staff"?

UKgirl

5
Lancashire / Re: Elon Musk's Liverpool Ancestors
« on: Sunday 22 June 25 15:02 BST (UK)  »
For DianaCanada,

I am a little unsure of what you are looking for, but is there any chance that this is it?

FreeREG

1819 Nov 14
Joseph Hibbert
&
Ann Lees
married in St. Mary, Prestwich (part of Manchester)

Witnesses: Thos Grimshaw & Edw. Redford

UKgirl

6
Gosh - born in 1909 and still alive!
At 115 years old (plus 253 days), a British woman has become the oldest person in the world.

1909 Ethel May Collins born in Shipton Bellinger (R.D. Andover)
1933 Ethel M Collins married Norman Caterham
1976 Norman Caterham died

And it is good to read that dear Ethel seems to have had an interesting life:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14666931/Ethel-Surrey-worlds-oldest-person-Brazil.html

UKgirl

7
goldie61
Well spotted. I just had a look at the Burial Register, and you are correct, no actual name is given.
Simply: Mrs Shakspeare
https://shakespearedocumented.folger.edu/file/dr2431-burial-register-folio-51-verso

Also in William Shakespeare’s Will, again no actual name given.
Simply: my wife

horselydown86
That’s very interesting about the names – I was unaware of that. In 2007 Germaine Greer published the book “Shakespeare’s Wife”. She kindly allowed the New York Times to print an excerpt from Chapter 1 where she lists some examples of the interchangeable names.
https://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/27/books/chapters/first-chapter-shakespeares-wife.html

e.g.
Richard Hathaway left a sheep to a great-niece he calls Agnes, though according to the parish record she was actually christened Annys; in 1600 she was buried as Ann.
Theatre manager Philip Henslowe called his wife Agnes in his will but she was buried as Ann.
Ann's brother Bartholomew called a daughter Annys, but she was buried as Ann.
William Gilbert alias Higgs who wrote Hathaway's will married Agnes Lyncian, but she was buried as Ann Gilbert.

“Buried as Ann” seems to be the common denominator, and the article explains why.

UKgirl

8
Yes, that’s the book. I too was taken aback by the name Agnes.

It seems that she was born in 1556, her father died in 1581 and she married in 1582, therefore she was already an adult woman when she was named in her father’s will, and one can presume that a father would not make a mistake with his own daughter’s name.

Perhaps she just did not like the name "Agnes" and decided to call herself "Anne" from the time of her marriage? Or perhaps William did not like the name "Agnes"?

Although Anne/Agnes went on to have 3 children, in those days only the father’s name was given in the baptism records, so her name would not have appeared. Accordingly, there may be very few records with her actual name on; the Marriage License Bond, William’s Will and her own Burial Record? And in all those instances, it would not have been her who supplied her name.

I wonder if the “G” was silent in those days? Maggie O’Farrell seems to suggest that, when she wrote in the book (QUOTE): "Agnes. Said differently from how it might be written on the page, with that near-hidden, secret G. Ann-yis. Agn-yez."

It's a bit interesting, isn't it?

UKgirl

9
goldie61
Yes – literally hundreds of years later. It’s astonishing, isn’t it?

By sheer coincidence, two weeks ago I borrowed a novel from the library called “Hamnet” by Maggie O’Farrell published in 2020. (Hamnet being the son of Shakespeare who died very young). Despite the title, the focus of the novel is actually the wife of Shakespeare, mother of Hamnet.

When this news item regarding Shakespeare's wife was announced on the radio this week, the above author was interviewed. Her excitement was palpable. My ears pricked up, which made me look for the exact details online.

Lucy2
Glad that you too enjoyed reading through the research details. It is a bit of a long read, but an excellent example of how to proceed, painstakingly, step by step, with no assumptions.

How very generous of Professor Matthew Steggle to publish this as open access!

It may act as an encouragement that with patience, it really is possible for so much to be eventually gleaned from so little, if only we don't give up. A worthwhile lesson for us all.

UKgirl

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