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Messages - Hornchurch

Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5
1
Essex / Len Martin - WW.1 Soldier & Cinema Manager - Plz Help
« on: Tuesday 09 September 25 02:16 BST (UK)  »
'
Hi Folks & hope you are all keeping well.

I am hoping that some learned people on this wonderful forum MIGHT be able to help me in my search for the aforementioned chap in the title ?

Very little to go by I'm afraid, but I'll provide what little I can.

When my Mum (now regrettably deceased for over 10+ years) was roughly in her late 20's or early 30's (?), which would be mid-late 1950's or very early 1960's, she worked at the so-called...

"Plaza" later re-named "Gaumont" Cinema, in South Street, Romford, Essex, near Liberty Walk.

Her Manager was the guy in question, named Len Martin.

My 94 y/o Dad tonight has furnished me with what little detail he knows, as hitherto, I did NOT know Len's Christian name - only that he was Manager at that once upon a time famous, well-used & much loved Cinema, before Cinemas generally fell into decline & popularity, mainly due to the advent, or rather 'explosion in popularity' of the, by then, ubiquitous Television.

Am told by Dad that he was in charge "for a very long time", but guessing in the 1950's, when Cinemas were still in vogue (realistically & metaphorically speaking)

From memory, "The Plaza" aka "Gaumont" eventually met it's demise (I'm told), sometime in the Early 1960's or maybe Mid-1960's
  ( Am told the Beatles played one of their Pre-1963/'64 concerts at one of the Romford  Cinemas, but I sadly cannot recall which one... ).

I know my Mother went on a week-long Holiday with Mr.Len Martin to Weymouth or Bournemouth, as I recall seeing small B & W, 3x5 photographs as late as the early 1970s (as a child), as they ended up in an old box, in our Greenhouse shed, preparatory to being thrown away (Yikes) which also included some pix of my Dad when he served in the R.A.F during the late 1940's & early 1950's
   ( circa Korean War era - I saved those important pix, of Dad with his Lee-Enfield 0.303 )

Back to Len Martin.

I noted he had "plasters over glasses" & as a young child, was informed that...

"He was a British Army Soldier who served in WW.1 & was blinded & wounded via Gas Attack in the trenches in which he served at that time"

Was also told (as a kid) that it damaged his eyesight (for life) & ruined & wrecked his lungs.
 This of course is heresay by my Mother, as I was told sometime in the 1960's.


I have NO idea EXACTLY where he was wounded (region/area), nor with which infantry regiment he served, nor when he was withdrawn after being wounded - But of course, I'd like to know.

I'd hazard a guess that "if" (as) he was gassed, it would be likely 1915 or 1916 possibly, as by 1917 *(as far as I know), British Soldiers would have had suitably developed Gas-masks around the time of Passchendaele & beyond, whilst serving on the Western Front - an assumption of mine.

If anyone could help fill me in about my Mum's 1950's & early 1960's "Plaza / Gaumont" Cinema Boss/Manager, or better yet, ANYTHING regarding Len's WW.1 service & wounding incident & battlefield region, I'd be most grateful, please.

Thanks in advance...  "Hornchurch".

POST EDIT = Found these online pix of the very Cinema in question....

  https://cinematreasures.org/theaters/31282/photos/162086

  https://cinematreasures.org/theaters/31282/photos/83244 


.

2
Essex / Re: Wright, Eastoe,Garner,Sacker,Hudson
« on: Thursday 01 May 25 06:09 BST (UK)  »
Quote from: Karen01 on Monday 09 January 06 08:42 GMT (UK)

Does anyone have any info on any of these names. Norfolk area 1750 - 1800ish.
All help much appreciated.
Karen ???

Sorry on wrong board should be Norfolk not Essex
'


Hi Karen,

You might wanna check out my posts on this thread here, below - Particularly Page.2


  https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=512917.9



I've given a run-down of our own direct "Hudson" Family tree

These details (since I posted 'em in 2011) have since been picked-up by other sites

Of course, they may not be in your direct line of enquiry

But they ARE of the time-span you ask of & hopefully may be of some use ?

Lastly, the irony is that although I'm from Essex, my Paternal ancestors ARE from Norfolk

   ( Hence I laughed at your Norfolk enquiry on the Essex board, where I should be )


Any questions you have (regarding any of the above), just give us a shout*

   *( Fire Station parlance that seeped into our vocabulary c/o a long-term neighbour !! )

.

3
World War Two / Re: 50 Squadron/Raid of Duisburg 12/13 May 1943
« on: Sunday 20 October 24 20:07 BST (UK)  »
Quote from: DeeBoneham on Friday 30 July 10 14:49 BST (UK)


I don't get on here as often as I would like...


I haven't got the Chorley books yet but that is my next thing to get the whole set

 ( there's nine in the set! which is not going to be cheap )

Dee
'


Hi Dee,

I've just stumbled upon your post - very late in the day, as it were, so to speak.

You mentioned the 'Chorely' books (series) & that "They're NOT going to be cheap"

Well, majoritively speaking, if ya use quite some patience, they should be

I acquired the full set at laughably cheap prices, although it takes patience & took me 2 years

Well worth it, in my opinion, for, generally as a rule, I never gave more than a tenner per copy

I must say, many were as low as £2.99 each, post free, including the rare '1943' copy


The '1943' copy WILL be the hardest to get hold of, but it's do-able, not impossible (I bought two)

Next hardest was the '1941' copy - Again, I managed to snag two of them, one cheap, one not

After that, the '1944' copy would be 3rd hardest to obtain, but like them all, they DO crop up.

We have two houses, hence I keep a copy at both, as it's such a crucial reference source.

Three of those 'difficult' copies, I managed to obtain for £4.50 or less, circa 2019-2022

As I've said, it just means having a TON of patience & keen eyesight.

There are several LARGE booksellers on E-Bay who, shall we say, ARE often a tad clumsy

My '1943' (tattier copy) was just £2.99 - a mistake by the large massive bookseller / vendor

When checking, make sure you 'Zoom-In' on the E-Bay listing photograph

Mine was listed as a 1945 copy, but was actually a rare '1943' copy, for just £2.99 to my door

Perseverance is key here - Perseverance & mucho patience = Good luck Dee

N.B = Try hard NOT to go beyond a 'tenner' (£10.00) per copy for the 1941-1944 issues

The 1939-1940 (1st issue) & the 1945 issues are by far THE cheapest & easily available

Try to obtain them from 'World of Books', or 'Awesome / C.Media / Baham' books via E-Bay U.K

'World of Books' is always your best bet, as their listings are VAST & they do make mistakes**


 ** By that, I mean you're more liable to stumble across a 1941/1943 copy 'by mistake', as I did

4
Worcestershire Lookup Requests / Re: Help Needed Looking For Marion Clifford's Sister, Anne or Annie plz
« on: Saturday 15 July 23 15:20 BST (UK)  »
Quote from: rosie99 on Friday 14 July 23 17:15 BST (UK)

The family including Annie in 1901

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XSST-33V

'


Goodness me :  Rosie , Carole & John  !!!!!!!!

Cannot thank you guys enough for your lightning-fast research  -  Truly amazing !!!!!!!

Mind truly blown that you guys were SO fast, so rapid AND also, SO accurate.

I'll add some more, one evening, when I have more time.

Suffice to say, I called my 92 y/o Dad upstairs, to tell him the good news (About your research, Y'all)

Laughably, before he reached the top of the stairs, he chirped up "I've remembered Bert's surname"

He followed on with..... "It was BRIGHT , Bertram Bright" , so then I knew you guys were 'on target'

Trust me, he's pleased about this, as with ALL the additional info' that you guys have collectively provided, it's added considerable colour to an (hitherto) unknown side, for me, of my immediate Nan's family.

The thing that really makes me laugh, is - Had a chance remark outside our kitchen just before midnight NOT have taken place, all this (for me), would've remained unknown !!

Thanks again Folks  -   Amazing !!

5
Worcestershire Lookup Requests / Help Needed Looking For Marion Clifford's Sister, Anne or Annie plz
« on: Friday 14 July 23 17:00 BST (UK)  »
Greetings Folks,

I'm hoping that some of you forumites & learned people can help steer me into some much needed information on my Grandmother's Sister.

I know nothing of her, until last night, my 92 year old Father mentioned her to me, just before turning in for bed.

My ONLY starting point is that my Dad's Mum is/was named "Gertrude Marion Clifford"

Gertrude Marion Clifford was born in 1902 in Croome D'Abitot, Worcestershire.

She died in Norfolk, in 1988, already a widower

She married William J Hudson - I believe that was in the mid-late 1920's

I know they lived in Becontree Heath (Essex) in the 1930's onwards, as he became a Steam Locomotive Driver in 1935

My Dad mentioned that Gertrude Marion Clifford had a sister, too

Alas he doesn't know "if" this Sister, named either Anne or Annie was older or younger than his Mum ?

It's Anne or Annie that I'm really seeking out, as she eventually gave birth to a Son, who later went on to serve in the B.E.F aka "British Expeditionary Force" & was apparently "Blinded At Dunkirk" in either Late May or Early June 1940.

I know my Nan WAS born in Croome D'Abitot in 1902 and that's pretty much all I've got to go on.....

..... other than her Sister Anne or Annie went to go live at a place called "Great Barr" in Birmingham, formerly under the borders of Staffordshire

BTW ; I know for a fact that neither she (Anne or Annie), nor her poor son Bert, or Bertram are still alive...

Bert, or Bertram apparently (due to his blindness & subsequent divorce) regrettably took his own life some time in the late 1940's or very, very early 1950's.

It's both HIM and his Mum specifically that I'd like to know about.... please....

I honestly wish I had more detail to submit, but my Dad's 92 y/o & his memory is fading & if I don't do it soon, he'll never know.....

Thanks for reading & many thanks in advance for those who could help me trace Anne or Annie Clifford, or and Bert (Bertram) her Ex Army B.E.F son

Cheers,

6
World War Two / Re: 153 Squadron, Lancaster Bomber & Air Crew - Update....
« on: Friday 14 July 23 16:13 BST (UK)  »
Quote from: Treetotal on Saturday 22 April 23 14:30 BST (UK)

I have acquired these photos and thought I would share them,
Carol
'

Carol ; I've just spent the (rainy) morning & lunchtime "researching" your initial opening Avro Lancaster photograph, which, hitherto, had remained "unidentified" on this site & thread.

As ya probably know by now (having communicated with you on your Vickers Wellington thread, elsewhere), I've been a lifelong 'fan' of RAF Bomber Command & the USAAF's 8th/9th Air Forces.

I fell "in love" with the image you posted (it's sharp, crisp), so decided to go looking (for it's I.D)

I've made a bit of a hash of keeping it concise (elsewhere, on another thread  ;)), but I was "trying" to juggle with about 8-to-9 open windows, collating as much info' "about her" as I could

We men, older men, tend to refer to living breathing machines as "Her" - whether it's an E-Type Jag', a Boeing B.17, or an old Steam Locomotive - I can't be doing with all these "Pronouns" = "They", "Them" or whatever year 2023 machines "identify" as today   ;)

Anyways, to keep it (far) more concise,. here, the following

1, =  Her serial number is  "NG500"

2,  =  She was based at RAF Scampton - That same base "in the news" for all the wrong reasons, in 2023 

3,  =  Her Fuselage Squadron codes were "P4-V" - These ARE the LARGE Dull Red I.D letters of the aircraft

4,  =   Perhaps "her" claim to fame, is that not only "she" survived the war - scrapped in 1947

5,  =   One of NG500 / "P4-V"s crew was, for one night in 1945 "a stowaway"  (highly illicit !)

Many RAF Bomber Command crew were shot-down & even "beaten to death" by German civilians**

It happened to a 214 Sqdn crew in Pforzheim (1945) and also an American B.24 crew, based only a few miles down the road from where I'm typing this (!). As of 2009 there was even You Tube video of one of the Nazi perpetrators of the crime being hung, for murdering the crew of "Wham Bam Thank You M'am" from North Pickenham, near Swaffham, Norfolk - (A raid on the Opel car/truck Factory).

6, =  Ironically, the "stowaway" who luckily returned to RAF Scampton & did NOT suffer the fate of those two local crews I've mentioned above, was a Woman - To be precise, "A WAAF"

Iris Price was the Bomb Aimer's romantic girlfriend & he rather stupidly challenged her, Iris, to "a dare" - To go on board a full bombing raid "over the Ruhr" - It turned out to be a raid on a German oil refinery, at Geilienkirchen

Anyways, it took place on board NG500 aka "P4-V" which is THE Lancaster you posted !!!!!

Amazingly, 51 years later, her "RAF Crew Bus Driver", Doris, "grassed her up" to Cilla Black - causing both women AND also "P4-V"s Bomb Aimer, Jim Vollens to appear on an episode of the once famous BBC prime night time television program during April 1996  !!!!!!

I'll post a photo' of "P4-V" with her FULL crew at the end of their 30 mission "tour", taken at RAF Scampton along with Iris Price in amongst them (!)  I've highlighted Iris gently, in Red

I'll also include a link to the Canadian PDF file, which related the story- (which I linked, once I'd found out NG500's identity), as it has photo's of Iris, Doris & Jim circa April 1996, plus the full S.P (story)

     https://www.warplane.com/documents/Flightlines-March-2018.pdf 

For those interested in reading the PDF file, it's pages 8, 9 and 10 that you want.....

I found the whole trip (my basic researching THIS actual plane, NG500 / "P4-V" ), to be pretty mindblowing - Not just the "Iris, WAAF stowaway" thing amazing, but also the "51 Years Later" & Cilla Black program appearance in April 1996

Full "Series 12" of I.T.V's "Surprise, Surprise" is actually available over on You Tube & initially, I thought I'd struck Gold, but alas, it was NOT to be and it turns out that the episode WE need, is just inside "Series 13"

Anyways ; Glad to see the crew(s) of "P4-V" survived the war, Iris & Doris too.

Found out (sadly) that Doris (dispersal pan Bus crew driver, in on "the secret" in 1945), later died some time after the Cilla Black T.V appearance, thru Tuberculosis, bless her.

Had "P4-V" been shot-down during her trip to Geilenkirchen during 1945 , Iris wouldn't have found her "derring-do" trip such a Jolly - Given what happened to the 1945 Boeing B.17 "100-Group" crew from 214 Sqdn on the Pforzheim raid, Iris most certainly got away with pushing her 'luck'

The German citizens of Pforzheim sought to make amends with a large wooden rocking-horse...some 50+ years later....

The Russelheim B.24 (North Pickenham) crew got THEIR faces immortalised in stone, in the town

Iris pushed her luck & struck it lucky - Her B/f would've been on a charge !!

Great initial post & superlative photograph of NG500 "P4-V" Carol !!!!   Thanks for posting it


7
World War Two / Re: Vicious Virgin - Avro Lancaster NG500 - Fuselage Codes "P4-V"
« on: Friday 14 July 23 14:21 BST (UK)  »
Quote from: Treetotal on Tuesday 16 May 23 16:20 BST (UK)
Remembered with Honour.
Carol
'



The incident was forgotten until many years later when Doris Davies, the crew truck driver who had covered for Iris and was in on the secret, brought it to light again in 1996.

She approached Cilla Black, the host of Surprise, Surprise (a British light television program), with the story. She was interested in including the story on one of her programs. Iris was contacted in New Zealand, and myself in London, to appear on her program in London England.”

Iris Price: “I can remember Bob daring me to go on a mission with him, so being the daredevil that I was in those days I agreed. It was a night operation which made the plan easy to achieve. A friend stood in for me while I was gone. This night I boarded the “Vicious Virgin”. Bob got me a helmet, mask, parachute and harness. I was in my Battle Dress...normal MT garb. We took off for Germany, via France and Belgium. There were a lot of searchlights and some flak. At this stage I was feeling sick. We arrived over the target, the bombs were dropped and we turned for home. Mission accomplished, I calmed down a bit. Then it happened. I wanted to relieve myself.

This I managed to do, eventually, into a bag which was disposed of down the flare-chute. However In the process of partly undressing and struggling to dress again I lost my oxygen supply and became anoxic. Fortunately the crew were checking on me and brought me to, but the feeling of sickness returned. The next day I reported to S.S.Q. (Station Sick Quarters) [the medical officer] put my disposition down to a touch of flu and got two days off duty. At the time neither I nor the crew members dared to tell anyone. Goodness knows what the consequences would have been! The whole business was an experience that I will never forget.”

One of THE real sad things I found out (whilst doing some light research), is that poor old Doris Davies, one of 153's "Crew Bus Drivers" (taking 153's crews TO their respective Avro Lancasters) & who had also appeared on Cilla's famous "Surprise, Suprise" program, later sadly died of Tuberculosis   :'(

To be fair, she had a 'GOOD INNINGS' (lifespan wise) & done an important job for the crews.

Down the road from where I lived, another lady on yet another RAF Avro Lancaster base did precisely the same job as Doris did - It got back to me barely a fortnight AFTER she'd died, that she'd been both mentally & emotionally "carved up" (the expression used), seeing "Night after Night" = ALL the boys of exactly the same age as her, being dropped-off at dispersal pans, with their respective navigational aids & parachutes (& "lucky charms"), jumping out of HER large truck & saying an emotional "Good Luck", knowing that many she either saw, knew of, or dropped off, never came back or returned from their often highly dangerous missions, mainly due to "Flak", collisions, or German Luftwaffe Night-Fighters.

The guy who told me this said "She was still being affected by it, in the year 2000's onward..."

Jim "Granny" Vollens & Iris Price, the highly illegal 'Ruhr joyrider' both appeared too, on the April 1996 episode of Cilla Black's (& I.T.V's) "Surprise, Surprise" too.

Thankfully there ARE photographs of them - Both in 1945 and also in 1996

I'll include the all important shot of "NG.500" known as "P4-V" with both Iris & "P4-V's" full crew

BTW ;  WAAF Iris Price is under the faint Red mark !!

I'll also include the April 1996 - PDF file,

 Please Note - The PDF file pages you need are pages 8, 9 and 10

    https://www.warplane.com/documents/Flightlines-March-2018.pdf


Cheers,   "Hawny"

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Avro Lancaster B.1 “Vicious Virgin”, NG500, coded P4-V, sometime after the ‘event’

Back Row (L- R): Sgt “Junior” Al Hardiman (Flight Engineer); W/O “Granny” Jim Vollans (Bomb Aimer); F/Sgt George Woolmer (Rear Gunner); member of Ground Staff; F/O Bob Purves (Aircraft Captain);
WAAF Iris Price; F/O Tommy Burke (Navigator); F/Sgt Jim Storey (Wireless Operator); Sgt Jack Crowther (Mid-Upper Gunner); Station Medical Officer; F/Sgt in charge of maintenance

Front row are ALL part of 'NG500's maintenance flight crew, sadly, none are known, today**  :'(

     ( However, they ARE thankfully immortalised in this historic shot )

8
World War Two / Re: Avro Lancaster NG.500 with Fuselage Codes "P4-V"
« on: Friday 14 July 23 14:14 BST (UK)  »
Quote from: Treetotal on Tuesday 16 May 23 16:20 BST (UK)
Carol
'


Finally we get to the astounding story involving THIS actual aircraft, "NG.500"  aka  "P4-V"

: “Assembled before Lancaster B.1 “Vicious Virgin”, NG500, P4-V, sometime after the ‘event’ and when the crew was tour expired.

 Back Row (L- R): Sgt “Junior” Al Hardiman (Flight Engineer); WO “Granny” Jim Vollans (Bomb Aimer); F/Sgt George Woolmer (Rear Gunner); member of Ground Staff; F/O Bob Purves (Aircraft Captain); WAAF Iris Price; F/O Tommy Burke (Navigator); F/Sgt Jim Storey (Wireless Operator); Sgt Jack Crowther (Mid-Upper Gunner); Station Medical Officer; F/Sgt in charge of maintenance.

 Story of this photo'  =   “The Only WAAF To Go On A Wartime Bombing Raid”

 Note WAAF  Iris Price , sixth from left in the top row - Bomb Aimer WO “Granny” Jim Vollans said:

“The pilot of my second crew, F/O Bob Purves RCAF, was dating Iris Price, a WAAF (Women’s Auxiliary Air Force) while at the operational air base at Scampton.

One night while they were on a date, Purves dared her to fly on a combat operation; she accepted the dare, saying if he would provide her with the proper flying equipment, she would go. (Gulp !)
So the next night operation, we were on. Purves secured the necessary flying equipment and placed it in the aircraft for Iris to put on before we took off for this mission to the Ruhr.

The mission date was the 13 March 1945 and the target was the synthetic oil plant at Gelsenkirchen in the Ruhr.

Once on, she promptly donned the flying gear, chute and harness, ready for takeoff. On the way to the target there were a lot of searchlights and flak. At this stage she began feeling ill. We arrived over the target, the bombs were dropped and we turned for home, mission accomplished. She began to feel better. Then something happened we hadn’t prepared for: she had to relieve herself.

Purves gave her a paper bag we carried for air sickness and she went back in the fuselage. After some time passed, Purves, as he could not leave his station himself, sent the Flight Engineer to see why she was taking so long. He found her lying on the floor, anoxic from lack of oxygen. Her supply hose had become disconnected while she was struggling to partly undress and dress again as, in those days, flying clothes were not made to accommodate women. He immediately gave her oxygen from a tank he had with him and she gradually came around, but not completely, as the tow gunners had to help her off the plane and into the crew bus which was being driven by her friend who kept the secret.....

9
World War Two / Re: Dambusters 80th - Identity Found - NG.500 coded "P4-V"
« on: Friday 14 July 23 13:26 BST (UK)  »
Quote from: Treetotal on Tuesday 16 May 23 16:20 BST (UK)
Remembering the Dambusters Raid today..

Carol


[Continued...]

It was then that I struck Gold & found the aircraft's true identity....

"Serial Number"  =  "NG.500"   -    Each serial specific, like a dataplate, or numberplate I.D

"Fuselage Squadron Codes"   =   "P4-V"  -  Note, these are the Dark Red Fuselage Code Letters

"Home Base Airfield"  =  October 1944 onwards  =   "RAF SCAMPTON"

I need hardly say about RAF Scampton being in the headline news over the last two months (June/July 2023) & dominating news headlines (outside the BBC Huw Edwards crisis)

Also, of course, despite countless dozens of other WW.II Avro Lancaster bases it could've flown from, it just happens to be RAF Scampton - Home of the specially formed "617" Squadron with it's hand-picked crews that WERE especially chosen for the 16th/17th May 1943 "Dambuster" raid.

So, it turns out that, despite not being one of the specially modified "Dambuster" a/c, it is & indeed WAS one of that famous base's aircraft & it finished it's career at Scampton, before being pensioned-off & sent to an M.U (Maintenance Unit) & then tragically scrapped in 1947

But what might interest you guys (reading this bit) next, is that we now KNOW the names of the crew that flew in her on their final tour (of 30 operations) before the E.T.O war finished**
     **(European Theatre, but not Japan - They were preparing "Tiger Force" instead)

I'll post the crew's names in my next post - Not being awkward, but it pertains to an AMAZING story !!

I'll also mention that 153 Sqdn's last & final mission, was to actually drop bombs on Adolf Hitler's very famous Alpine Home Retreat of "Berchtesgaden" on 21st April 1945.

Like I say, she ("NG.500" aka "P4-V") survived the war, only to be later scrapped, but her crew done something very 'dodgy' & highly against regulations....

The keen participant in the wrongdoing (against regulations) would later, as a very old lady, appear in a 1996 episode of the famous British T.V series "Surprise, Suprise" because of this....

I'll explain all in the next post....


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