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Messages - Old Laughin Lady

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1
Ireland / Re: McGurns & Templetons- Where???
« on: Friday 29 April 05 20:58 BST (UK)  »
Hi Jean

After I posted my update to you I went to the FamilySearch site and typed in all possible spellings I could think of and I discovered that Martin & Margaret had 3 more children, James McGorran, Ann McGorran and Martin McGorran, the other son they had was Patrick McGoran, and of course Dennis McGorren, 3 different spellings in the one household.
They would all sound the same in the Irish brogue, although I pronounce it Magurn. (another spelling perhaps)

So try all types of spelling in your search, I expect it became McGurn when they were able to read and write.

I'm off now to try and find Martins death certificate I will try all spellings, that may give a clue to his mother & father.  I will keep my eyes open for your names as well.

Maggie

2
Lanarkshire / Re: Help trace McGurn - Glasgow 1851/61
« on: Thursday 28 April 05 21:07 BST (UK)  »
Liz

Thanks again for your tips.

Have found Dennis's birth certificate and his mother Margarets death certificate.
Still no sign of Martins death certificate, Margaret died first in 1869 and I know Martin was deceased by 1881, I have tried all spellings.  There is no record of him in the 1871 census, so he may have died soon after Margaret, though perhaps not in Scotland and thats why I cannot find him on Scotlands people.

If Martin died soon after Margaret the family would have been very young and perhaps Dennis was raised by Martins brother Patrick, hence the different fathers names on his birth, marriage and death certificates.

You gave me the info that Dennis had a brother Partick aged 1 in 1861, I have found a Patrick aged 10 living in boardings with other children in Ardrossan on the 1871 census, there is also a Martin McGurn aged 4.  I still have to find out if they are brothers and if they are Dennis's brothers. They may have been fostered if their parents died soon after each other and none of the other family members were able to take them in. Thats my next task.
It would have been easier if they had given their children unique christian names, but then that would have made it too easy for us.

Cheers

Maggie

3
Ireland / Re: McGurns & Templetons- Where???
« on: Thursday 28 April 05 20:51 BST (UK)  »
Hi Jean

Latest update..I have found my GG Grandfather Martin..thanks to Capricorn on the Lanarkshire site..he was McGorran, Married Margaret Campbell in 1854.  He was born in Antrim and Margaret was born in Donegal. My Great grandfather Dennis was born in Anderston in1856..Dennis McGorren, the name changed again in 1862 when they had a daughter Ellen, it was now McGurn.
None of them could write so I suspect they could not read either so they just made their mark against someone elses spelling of the name, so I need to search under them all now.

I found my GG Grandmother Margarets death certificate, she died in 1869, she died before Martin but I cannot trace his death certificate, I have guessed he died between 1869 and 1871 as there is no trace of him in the 1871 census, nor is there any trace of Dennis, but Dennis turns up in Paisley in 1881.
Dennis may have been taken in by Martins brother Patrick hence the different fathers names on his certificates.

Dennis definately had one brother Patrick aged 1 in 1861, and I traced a Patrick McGurn aged 10, living in boardings in Ardrossan, there was also a Martin McGurn staying there he was aged 4.(Have not yet discovered if they are related to each other or to my tree) If their Mother was Margaret and we know she died young and if Martin died soon after then they may have been fostered out...phew.
It would be so much easier if they had given their children unique names.

Anyway I will keep plodding on with my search..its a great adventure although frustrating at times as I am sure you know. I hope you enjoy your weekend and hopefully your friend will let you have some of the info from her census.

Maggie

4
Lanarkshire / Re: Help trace McGurn - Glasgow 1851/61
« on: Wednesday 27 April 05 13:57 BST (UK)  »
Liz

Just a quick update, I think I have found Dennis's birth certificate, following your lead, I have tried all spellings, and he is Dennis McGorren.
Cant access it yet as I am work.

Thanks for the tips.

Maggie

5
Lanarkshire / Re: Help trace McGurn - Glasgow 1851/61
« on: Tuesday 26 April 05 20:57 BST (UK)  »
Liz

Thanks again for your help.  Have found Martin McGorran & Margaret Campbell marriage on Scotlands People, unfortunately there are no records available to view..does it get any harder?
The info you gave me from the census means my Great Grandfather was born in 1856, but no birth records found under McGorran/McGurn.  Nor no death records for Martin.  Maybe he and Margaret went back to Ireland ?

I suppose if they had to make their X mark, then they couldnt read either, so they would just agree with what was written down for them and the spelling gradually changed.

I will continue on with my search...suppose Ireland will be my next quest.

Once again thanks for your help. 

Maggie

6
Lanarkshire / Re: Help trace McGurn - Glasgow 1851/61
« on: Monday 25 April 05 21:30 BST (UK)  »
Hi Liz

I managed to view the birth certificate for Ellen/Helen, it has Martin McGurn as the  father and Margaret Campbell as the mother, married in Glasgow in 1854.
No marriage records !!

Is there anywhere I can access a 1861 census ? in the hope they may be there..although they dont seem to be recorded anywhere else.

I tried the site you mentioned and eventually managed to get some names...it was a bit of a struggle getting information...

Any advice will be appreciated before I sink into the McGurn black hole as they all seem to have moved around a bit and ages differ greatly which leads to even more confusion and frustration.

thanks

Maggie

7
Ireland / Re: McGurns & Templetons- Where???
« on: Monday 25 April 05 12:45 BST (UK)  »
Hi Jean

Just a quick note as I am at work.

My Great Grandfather was Dennis, my Grandfather was Dennis, his son Dennis died aged 9 and my brother is Dennis. So the odds are that we will have a link somewhere, and if as you say the first boy is usually named after the fathers father, that could mean that  my G Grandfather had an older brother Dennis ??
I have 3 generation of Mary's, 3 generations of John, 2 Williams and 4 of Margaret/Maggie.

The death certificate I mentioned for Ellen McGurn has Martin McGurn as her father and Margaret Campbell  as her mother, they were married in Glasgow in 1854.  I cannot trace the marriage certificate, nor their sons birth certificate (thats GGrandfather Dennis), nor either of the parents death certificates, but at least now I know they did exist and married.

The first trace of my grandfather Dennis is the 1881 census, you will see he is in Paisley by then.

What I would like to get a hold of is the 1861 census, but I dont know where I would get that, and even then if there are no birth, marriage or death records who's to say I will definately find anything, thats the frustrating part.

Your George Jones McGurn may have a welsh connection as both George & Jones are welsh.

Maggie


8
Ireland / Re: McGurns & Templetons- Where???
« on: Friday 22 April 05 20:22 BST (UK)  »
Hi Jean

When I found this site 2 weeks ago, it was one of your messages that I came across, McGurns & Variants (I think) and you possibly posted it a few years ago, I posted a reply to you
there.

I have only recently started the search and so far all my McGurns have been in Scotland, traced back to 1850's and  I have hit that brick wall, although Capricorn has found me a birth extract that may give me another clue..I hope.

The only info I have on my GG Grandfather Dennis is that he was born in Glasgow around 1857 but I cant find his birth records, nor trace him in any census till 1881.
The confusing part is that his father is Martin on his marriage certificate and Patrick on his death certificate, mothers name Margaret Campbell remains the same on both documents.
Martin was a farm labourer.

I also found a death notice for Ellen McGurn who died in Glasgow aged 1yr 4 months, her parents are Martin & Margaret.
The death was registered by Martins brother Patrick.

So do I assume Martin died when Dennis was young and the family moved in with Patrick & his family.
No death records can be found for Martin or Margaret.

Capricorn informed me that there is a birth certificate for the above Ellen, so that may give me a clue about the parents and if they did ever marry. Scotlands People has been offline for a few days so I am itching to get in and view the records.

My McGurns all seem to take the same christian names down the generations, Dennis, John, Margaret, Mary, Isabella, William,  Ellen.  No mention of Christopher  yet !!but I think you are right I am sure they must all be related somewhere.
I dont know if any went to US or Canada although I know my fathers sisters both married canadians and lived there most of their lives.
Also another stumbling block is that children were raised by other members of the family, if parents died and its difficult to trace them.

As for the Mains, I have traced back to 1790 when my GGG Grandfather James Main was a shoemaker in Stranraer, he married Fanny Templeton (born in Ireland) and several years later they moved  to Kilmarnock.

Where in Scotland  does your "Main" connection come from?

I'd appreciate any advice or websites you can suggest I look at.


Maggie




9
Lanarkshire / Re: Help trace McGurn - Glasgow 1851/61
« on: Wednesday 20 April 05 19:55 BST (UK)  »
Liz

Your a star.  I dont know what I was doing wrong but I just couldnt find it, so I just typed in the surname and year of birth that you gave me and there is a record there.   :)Unfortunately there is a problem with the site at the moment, so it means I cant view it yet.  Maybe I will get a marriage date there or at least some clues.

Is there any mention of a Dennis/Denis's birth on your magical IGI site.  He would have been born 1857 -59, ages differ on each document, or is this a site anyone can access and I could check for myself?

Thanks again for your help with this..all may not yet be lost :)

Maggie

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