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Messages - monkers

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1
Family History Beginners Board / Re: Christening for Kenneth Ivor Lloyd
« on: Thursday 25 July 13 20:06 BST (UK)  »
Alexander Harvey Lloyd  Could he have been away at sea, army  at th time of the birth? Sandra

I don't think so. He is on the 1911 census as a salesman. Ken was born about 18 months after that and Alex registers the birth another 6 months later, and he's still a salesman on the cert.
That leaves a 2 year gap. I suppose he could have disappeared and then come back, but I think he probably just stayed working in the area.

2
Family History Beginners Board / Re: Christening for Kenneth Ivor Lloyd
« on: Thursday 25 July 13 20:03 BST (UK)  »
Alexander may have known Annie Berry, the family story seems to think he might have done. His adoptive father, the preacher was originally from this area.
I think there was some reason why none of the babies in the Berry household were registered in the correct time frame. I would love to know why.
I don't think he needed to track Ken down, he was always around living nearby. Maybe he even made an effort to see Ken when he was a baby, who knows. Certainly Ken never met him when he was old enough to remember it.
He cared enough to send him to fancy school, but not enough to remove him from Annie's care who abused him. I suppose things were different in those days and being vile to children was acceptable.
He just turned off when he went bankrupt. I suppose he had other things to worry about. Poor Ken, he always expected his dad to turn up one day like a knight in shining armour, but he never did. He was aware when he was a child that his dad was paying for his education.

3
Family History Beginners Board / Re: Christening for Kenneth Ivor Lloyd
« on: Thursday 25 July 13 18:54 BST (UK)  »
goodness, you have been busy!
I am thrilled with you replies and there are some real clues there.
A bit of info on Alexander...
He was a fascinating character. He was born in the Liverpool poor house, a place that must have been worse than hell in 1888. His parents were unmarried.
He was "rescued" from the poor house by a man called Edwin Carter, a preacher. Alex appears in the next two cencuses with him.
At some point, he moves to London. I think he has delusions of grandeur as he adopts the name Harvey. He wasn't christened Harvey and he uses this name for the rest of his life as a first name. He also rents an address in Rugivny Gardens, which is pretty exclusive. I think he was determined to shake off his awful start in life.
He marries Ellen Cochrane, nee Wigley later on in his 40's. She is quite a well to do widow of a music hall star, and she was an actress herself.
On his marriage cert, he gives his address as Empire House, picadilly. You don't get much more highbrow than that.... but this is an office building and not accommodation. I think he worked there, not lived there, hence the delusions thing.
Anyhow, he must have made some money, but he lost it again as he was declared bankrupt in the 1920s. He did continue to live in a rather nice house in Fulham, and ended his days in a rather nice house in Surrey.

As for my theories on his parenting skills....!
He had no parents himself and was brought up by a preacher. There is nothing to suggest he was a kindly man. Alex let him die on his own in the poor house in Liverpool, so maybe there was no love lost between them.
Alex comes to London in his 20's and gets Lily pregnant. He must have stuck around for that 9 months as he was on the scene 6 months after the birth.
I think he arranged for Lily to have the baby at Annie Berry's house, then Lily cleared off. Annie has other babies in the house with no mothers in the 1911 census.
There must have been some reason why the birth was registered so late. All the other children in the house also were registered late. Annie maybe wanted to stay off the radar. Perhaps a condition of her taking on children is that someone else must register the birth 6 months later. Why??
Alex stayed in the background until Ken was a young teen. He must have paid Annie and he paid for Ken to attend public school, so we also know Alex was making money.
This is where is gets sad
Ken had a hideous childhood with Annie, he hated her. One day he was sent home from Whitgift and he never knew why. He was literally on the street, Annie didn't take him back in. Why? Because Alex went bankrupt. One day he was funding Ken, the next day it stopped.
What is really sad is that he didn't live far away in his nice house with his wife and step daughter. He could have taken Ken in, but he didn't. I think his wife didn't know about Ken and Alex didn't want to tell her.
So that was it. Alex never had parents and didn't know how to be one, and Ken didn't have parents and he too struggled to parent his own children, which is also very sad.
I do find it very hard to accept that Alex could pay and in some way take responsibility for many years, when many men would have done a runner, yet then rather callously, left Ken to his fate out on the street.

I am thrilled with the patent, thanks for that! I am sure it must be him, no other Alexander Harvey Lloyds seem to exist around that time. A powder puff, how bizarre! Do you know if I can find out any more about the patent?
He must have made a will, but I can't find it. Are there any clues on how to look for it? He died in 1942 aged only 56.

Thanks again and thanks for reading my little story! I am desperate to find out more about these two.

4
Family History Beginners Board / Re: Christening for Kenneth Ivor Lloyd
« on: Wednesday 24 July 13 22:13 BST (UK)  »
Thanks for your help!
I think she sounds a bit old to be having illegitimate children though, she would have been 38 in 1912. Alexander was born in 1888, so would have been 24 when Ken was born. My guess is that Lilian would have been around the same age, unless Alex had a penchant for older women!

5
Family History Beginners Board / Re: Christening for Kenneth Ivor Lloyd
« on: Wednesday 24 July 13 19:43 BST (UK)  »
Hi, thanks for the reply.
Well, it is a fascinating story, well to me anyway and gives some insight into the fostering process of the times.
Ken was born on the third of September 1912 at “Amanda”, Pinner Road, Ruislip, Northwood. His birth certificates states that his mother was Lilian Kate Austin and his father was Alexander Harvey Lloyd. His birth was registered on the 7th March 1913, some months later than it should have been registered. Lilian is registered Lloyd nee Austin, but they never married. The birth was registered by his father. His mother was long gone.

Ken was brought up by foster parents.

A census search of this address the year before, shows that the house is occupied by an Annie Berry and her family, plus some lodgers. It was interesting that there were a couple of small children listed as visitors with no parents - Ernest Winter, a four year old and Barbara Brown, a baby of under one month. There is also a young woman staying there with another newborn baby. She is listed as French and married, which with a name like Ruth Sutton, which at first seemed unlikely, but after making some checks, it seemed to be true.
This made me wonder if Annie was some kind of “back street” midwife. Perhaps hers was a place that unmarried mothers went to give birth, and then maybe left their children with Annie to foster.

As for the delay in registering Ken’s birth, there is a pattern here. Both the other small children had their births registered late too. Maybe there was some kind of loophole for unofficial fostering? The adoption process did not come into being until 1926. It does seem odd that all the children are registered late. Even in those days there was a fine if the birth was registered late.

One other point regarding the 1911 cencus is that Annie would have filled it in herself. Why would she have listed the two small children as visitors if they are foster children? I firmly believe that what she was doing was unofficial and she was keen to keep it that way.
I think she received payment direct from the families of the children. Certainly Ken's father Alexander paid for him to attend Whitgift school. Ken never met his father or mother and it must have been very odd receiving this money from his father somewhere in the background.

Anyway, after all that.... I was hoping that maybe he was christened after all. In some christenings I have found extra snippets of information on some sites, so I was just hoping it might provide more of a clue about Lilian.
my guess is that she would have been young in 1912, unmarried and living in the Middlesex area. There are a couple of possibles but I really need something more concrete to link her with Ken.
Sorry for the long story, I have got carried away!   ;D

6
Family History Beginners Board / Christening for Kenneth Ivor Lloyd
« on: Wednesday 24 July 13 18:54 BST (UK)  »
I am having trouble locating this baptism. He was born in September 1912 in Northwood Middlesex, but wasn't registered until 1913. His parents were not married but were called Alexander Harvey Lloyd and Lilian Kate Austin. Essentially, I am trying to find out more about Lilian as she disappeared not long after having Kenneth and was never seen of again!
Of course he may never have been christened, would this have been common for an illegitimate child?

7
Family History Beginners Board / Re: Searching for cemetaries/ grave stones
« on: Thursday 07 March 13 18:58 GMT (UK)  »
Wow, thank you. Lots of information, I shall start on your suggestions this evening.

I am looking for An Alexander Harvey Lloyd. He was christened Alexander Lloyd, but added the Harvey himself which he used as a first name.
He died on the 28th August 1942 in Westminster hospital aged 56.
He lived on Cotsford Avenue, New Malden, Surrey with his wife Ellen/ Nellie and his death was registered in the city of Westminster.
If anyone knows how to search this area, I would be grateful as it is rather large!

8
Family History Beginners Board / Searching for cemetaries/ grave stones
« on: Wednesday 06 March 13 22:28 GMT (UK)  »
Hi there,
I am trying to trace my great grandfather and I have his death certificate. I was wondering how to go about finding where he is buried (were cremations common in the 1940s?)
Is it a case of wandering around church yards close to his last address, or is there a way of finding out this information online?
Thanks!

9
Essex Completed Lookup Requests / Re: Marriage for John and Emily Hill
« on: Wednesday 30 January 13 19:04 GMT (UK)  »
Lovely, thanks very much for your help!   ;D

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