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Messages - granata

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1
Lancashire / Re: Oxford Street Rock Pub Manchester
« on: Sunday 05 September 10 01:03 BST (UK)  »
Yeah so long as you credit Alan Godfrey Maps (1849) yak yak

Or  I'll drop the map off at the pub whenever suits


2
Lancashire / Re: Oxford Street Rock Pub Manchester
« on: Friday 27 August 10 19:10 BST (UK)  »
Barbara, between Chepstow Street and Gloucester Street you'll pick up the Oxford Road Inn (aka Oxford Road Inn & Atlas Hotel) and the New Concert Inn.  However, Grand Central is just south of Gloucester Street.
 
On the 1849 map shows the Salisbury (then known as the Tulloghgorum Vaults) on James Leigh Street, which is tucked behind Grand Central today.   Where Grand Central is is 8 separate premises.  The map's reverse records Thomas Lee in the New Concert Tavern and John Mitchell at the Oxford Road Inn & Atlas Hotel.  Frustratingly it doesn't stretch as far as No.80  :(
 
The 1894 map doesn't show a "P.H." at the Grand Central location either; just them 8 separate premises.

Here is the 1849 map with the above pubs on:



1 = New Concert Inn
2 = Oxford Road Inn
3 = Tulloghgorum Vaults
Outline = Grand Central

3
Lancashire / Re: astley arms. gt ancoats street
« on: Tuesday 24 August 10 21:22 BST (UK)  »
Frank, renumbering is the simplest and most likely answer in my opinion.

Another key through road, Deansgate, also underwent renumbering, as we have recently discovered when researching "No.40 Deansgate".  Now this is the Renaissance Hotel, more specifically the old Pizza Italia beneath it.  In the 1800s No.40 was much further down near to Bridge Street:



4
Lancashire / Re: Oxford Street Rock Pub Manchester
« on: Tuesday 24 August 10 00:45 BST (UK)  »
we'll be back in soon for a pint Anna

in fact we need to do a bar nearby in our quest - that new one on Charles Street - so we'll say hello and you can tell us your latest findings!


5
Lancashire / Re: astley arms. gt ancoats street
« on: Sunday 22 August 10 20:05 BST (UK)  »
Think you've cleared most of this up by now, but here's my two pennorth:

http://pubs-of-manchester.blogspot.com/2010/03/astley-arms-great-ancoats-street.html

This from Neil Richardson's The Old Pubs of Ancoats (1987):

"The Astley Arms is first recorded in 1821, tenanted by Thomas Evans. Around 1840 the house was rechristened the Pagianni Tavern by Thomas Inglesent, who is recalled in J J Slugg's "Manchester Fifty Years Ago".  Pagianni came to Manchester in the 1830s and 'In after years a blind man known as Tom Inglesent, who kept the Pagianni Tavern on Great Ancoats Street, became a very clever imitator of the great violinist.'

In March 1849 the Pagianni featured in a newspaper account entitled "The Bank of Elegance": 'Shortly before one o'clock on Monday morning, a well-dressed young woman inquired of three men in Great Ancoats Street, the way to the cathedral. They directed her and then she requested them to have a glass of something to drink. To this they consented and all four went into the Pagianni.  The landlord being blind it is managed by his brother-in-law.  She called for four glasses of brandy and presented what she called a £10 Bank of England note, but which was a handbill belonging to some shop, drawn up after the fashion of a Bank of England note, and purporting to belong to the 'Bank of Elegance'.  The man not being sufficiently able to read it, demurred to receiving it, as he thought it was a £5 note.  She told him that she had a £5 note and pulled out another 'Bank of Elegance' paper... he was disinclined to take either.  He showed them to three musicians who were leaving the house, and none of them could detect that they were not real notes, though all suspected them not to be so.  The young woman then offered to leave them in the man's care until the following day, on condition that he gave her a sovereign as security, which she would return when she came for them and pay for the brandy.  He consented to the arrangement, and gave her a sovereign, but directly afterwards, fearing that there was something wrong about the pretended notes, he spoke to a policeman (who had followed the woman and men into the house).  The policeman apprehended the young woman and she then gave the man his sovereign back.  The woman, whose name is Elizabeth Disley, was brought up at the Borough Court the same day... she stated in answer to the magistrates that she could read a little print but not writing.  She said that the 'notes' were given her two years ago by a gentleman of her acquaintance.  He have her four £10 notes and six £5 notes.  She had only the two produced left.  All the others (she claimed) were good ones, and she did not know that those two were not so.  She was remanded to yesterday when she was discharged with a caution.'

Tom Inglesent retired in 1848 and the owners advertised for a new tenant for the "vaults, brewhouse, doing excellent business, averaging eight barrels of ale per week."

In the 1850s the inn had become the Astley Arms again and remained open until 1928, when it was a Cornbrook house.  The building has had several uses since, but it still stands, opposite the end of Jersey Street, and in 1986 it was partly rebuilt."


6
Lancashire / Re: Oxford Street Rock Pub Manchester
« on: Sunday 22 August 10 18:10 BST (UK)  »
Great stuff Barbara, many thanks, I'll have a look on google books. 

Migky:   Pubs of Ancoats, Deansgate (Manchester Village), Little Italy, Ancoats Lad, etc. are all well worth a look too.

I've got all the Manchester ones if they can ever be of any help to anyone.

In fact the only one that Neil Richardson doesn't appear to have covered before he sadly passed away is central Manchester (and is none of the reasons we started the Pubs of Manchester blog... that and a valid excuse to have a regular pint in town  ;) )

7
Lancashire / Re: Oxford Street Rock Pub Manchester
« on: Sunday 22 August 10 14:25 BST (UK)  »
Ooh a 1954 directory, that could come in very handy!   ::)

Most of the info used on the blog is referenced from older directories, books on Manchester history (especially Neil Richardson's pub booklets), other websites and our own and readers' knowledge.

Unfortunately the B&B / GC is just outside the area covered in The Old Pubs of Hulme & Chorlton-on-Medlock by Bob Potts/Neil Richardson (1997).  Clynes Vaults, Royal Brew Vaults and Lass O'Gowrie are featured and are/were just yards away.

8
Lancashire / Re: Oxford Street Rock Pub Manchester
« on: Sunday 22 August 10 12:42 BST (UK)  »
Brilliant thread, thanks especially annafabulous, Barbara and Mr Migky for such enthusiasm and investigation.

Oh and anna, your beer isn't bad... just a tad too cold!  And real ale instead of smoothflow wouldn't go amiss  ;)

Hope you don't mind that I've updated the GC entry on our Pubs of Manchester blog with info from here.

http://pubs-of-manchester.blogspot.com/2010/03/42-grand-central-oxford-rd.html

Cheers

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