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Messages - Llanfihangel

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1
Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition / Re: Old Welsh will Gwalter ap Gllm 1588
« on: Tuesday 09 December 25 21:20 GMT (UK)  »
Hello horselydown 66,
Yes those items match the other clues I have.. There is a place called Kevenworth in Merthyr Cynog, but the reference is 1oo years later. I expect that is the same place. Your help is really appreciated!
Thanks, and all the best for the holiday season (Christmas) and a Happy and Prosperous New year to all in this Forum.
LLanfi
 :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

2
Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition / Gwalter ap Gllm Script
« on: Tuesday 09 December 25 12:13 GMT (UK)  »
Hi,
I somehow got to send this post without the original image..
Here it is!
PLease accept my apologies!
Llanfi
 :'( :) :) :) :) :) :)

3
Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition / Old Welsh will Gwalter ap Gllm 1588
« on: Tuesday 09 December 25 12:08 GMT (UK)  »
Hi,
I have obtained a scan of an old Welsh Will from the Library of Wales. It is dated 1588 but is remarkably legible.
However, there are some words I can't decipher and I would really appreeciate your help.
I have made my best shot of deciphering this passage and I would like your experts assistance in deciphering the words identified by my ????? notations
All replies will be gratefully acknowledged!

Thanks!
Llanfi  :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

4
Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition / Re: 1600s script in Old Welsh Wills
« on: Thursday 13 November 25 20:24 GMT (UK)  »
Thanks horselydown86 and the others who so kindly reviewed my questions..

My primary interest was Hugh Evan, who I hrtheraoped was described as Vicar of Merthyr Cynog Breconshire. Your interpretation is "spot on" and identifies him correctly.
The Richard Saunders in the second snippet may have been a landowner, and I can find out more by studying the text of his wiil.

For furter context here is some of my research ..................Sir Hugh Evans was named as one of the benefactors in David Ap Gwilym ap Thomas of Merthyr Cynog's will in 1574.

Morgan ap Gwillam was incumbent of Merthyr Cynog and Llanfihangel Nant Bran Parishes (Indenture dated 1538), and David Thomas Davidd Gwillym is cited in an Inquisition document (Brecon) of 1601. David John Gwillam was the incumbent of Merthyr Cynog and Llanfihangel Nant Bran in 1615 and he was gifted a silver chalice by “TGP and TGB” in 1615.

There are many historical documents regarding a property known as “Bailey Brith” in Merthyr Cynog.

For example, a 1585 indenture has detailed information of it’s sale by Thomas David ap Gwillym in 1585 to David Williams of Gwernyfed . The indenture states that Thomas David ap Gwillam’s father was David Gwilym Thomas. A David Thomas ap David ap Gwilym was married to Elizabeth Havard when he took ownership of a large property in Merthyr Cynog in 1530.

As a result, there is good evidence that the Gwilym Family were influential in Merthyr Cynog from at least 1530.

It is possible that “Sir” Hugh Evans may have been somehow related to this Gwilym family. They may even have been patrons of his tenure as Vicar in the 1550’s.

Shakespeare wrote the ”Merry Wives of Windsor” around 1597 depicting the idiosyncrasies of the social classes of that era, but his characters are probably late Elizabethan.

How he chose Sir Hugh Evans is a matter of interest, but while he is obviously Welsh, he may have had nothing to do with Breconshire.

Thanks,
Llanfi :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)


5
Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition / 1600s script in Old Welsh Wills
« on: Thursday 13 November 25 02:24 GMT (UK)  »
Hi,
I have purchased scans of two old Welsh Wills from the Library of Wales.
I have attached snippets of both of them.
The top portion is clearly named Hughe Evan(s) but I would like to know if there is any indication of his status (clergyman etc) in the title.
The second Will is of a similar date, but I can't make out the name at all!

All help will be much appreciated!!
Thanks
Llanfi  :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

6
Breconshire / Re: Ancestral relevance on Old Chalice
« on: Friday 12 September 25 20:46 BST (UK)  »
Yes, I got no response
Cheers,
Llanfi
 :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

7
The Common Room / chalice inscriptions
« on: Friday 12 September 25 13:22 BST (UK)  »
Hi,
I have this record of a silver Chalice that was given  to St Michael's Church in Llanfihangel Nant Bran, breconshire, Wales in 1615. Please see attached..

There are two inscriptions on the Chalice that I would like to interpret..
They are:
   G       and          G
T     P                T     B

The incumbent Priest was David John Gwilym and I think the donors of the silver chalice had their own initials inscribed when it was presented to him

I think the "G" in both inscriptions indicate that they were members of the Gwilym family, possibly David John Gwilym's sons. They had initials  T P and T B, so may have had the patrynomic names
TP Gwilym and TB Gwilym, but were better known as Thomas Pugh and Thomas Beavan, both around Merthyr Cynog Breconshire at that time.

Thomas was a very popular Christian name in Wales, but surnames were mostly patrynomic.. "ap" signified "son of" ... ap Hugh could be Pugh and ap Evan could be Beavan
 
Were there any protocols for donor incriptions on old Church plate? Do they often include initials? The 1614 hall mark indicates that the chalice was made specially for the Priest, David John Gwilym, who was appointed to the Parish in 1615. The donor inscriptions were probably made around the same time.....

Any Comments will be much appreciated..!
Thanks
Llanfi  :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

8
Breconshire / Ancestral relevance on Old Chalice
« on: Monday 01 September 25 08:15 BST (UK)  »
Hi,
I have this record of a silver Chalice that was give  to St Michael's Church in Llanfihangel Nant Bran in 1615. Please see attached..

There are two inscriptions on the Chalice that I would like to clarify..
They are:
   G       and          G
T     P                T     B

The incumbent Priest was David John Gwilym and I think the donors of the silver chalice had their own initials inscribed when it was presented to him

I think the "G" in both inscriptions indicate that they were members of the Gwilym family, possibly David John Gwilym's sons. They had initials  T P and T B, so may have had the patrynomic names
TP Gwilym and TB Gwilym, but were better known as Thomas Pugh and Thomas Beavan, both around Merthyr Cynog at that time.

Any Comments will be much appreciated..!
Thanks

Llanfi  :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)


9
Hello Vance Mead,
Thanks for your speedy reply!

According to the Internet 1 pound sterling in 1550s is the equivalent of 346 pounds today, so the inheritance is worth about 40X346 pence = 13,840 pence. about 60 pounds. A bit more than a pittance but not much, Gwillam ap David Ap Thomas was quite a wealthy man so it was a token amount to the Parish Priest.

Best Regards! :) :) :)

Llanfi  :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

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