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The Common Room / Re: Correction to GRO index not accepted
« on: Thursday 08 May 25 20:20 BST (UK) »
The limitations of the search system has been raised with GRO many times, so far with no success.
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The Common Room / Re: Registers of stillbirths
« on: Thursday 08 May 25 20:11 BST (UK) »Google Search has this, not sure if it helps
"In England during the late 1940s, stillbirths were recorded, though not as formally as they are today, and the system for registration was not fully in place until later. While specific stillbirth records from the late 1940s might be difficult to access in a readily searchable format, you can explore the historical records available at the General Register Office (GRO) and local family history centers."
A good example of how Google ( or AI) can get things badly wrong....
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The Common Room / Re: Correction to GRO index not accepted
« on: Thursday 08 May 25 15:28 BST (UK) »Thank you AntonyMMM. Do you know if there are plans to include missed pages at some later date, or
whether the GRO are keeping a tally of reported missing entries?
No idea ( but I would hope so).
Most "missing entries", between 80-90% I believe when I last spoke to someone at GRO, are not missing at all but are indexed differently - many are due to the changes in the indexing rules used between the old and new indexes, and some due to interpretation (i.e. spelling) variations.
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The Common Room / Re: Correction to GRO index not accepted
« on: Thursday 08 May 25 14:18 BST (UK) »
It looks like none of the entries from that page are available in the on-line index, which I suspect means the page was missed during digitisation.
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The Common Room / Re: Help needed understanding crime registers
« on: Tuesday 29 April 25 09:39 BST (UK) »
On the 1910 entry, the first line is a note of a "recognizance" , the two lines below are his previous convictions.
In this context the recognizance would have not have been related to bail, but would be the equivalent of being "bound over" or a "conditional discharge" today - i.e. he promised the court that he would behave himself in future ( but obviously didn't), and that could then be taken into account for future sentencing.
Same in 1919 - show that he had been in an industrial school in 1903, the recognizance in 1907 and then his convictions are listed.
"Computed from" is the date the sentence was deemed to be calculated as starting, and could vary to take account of time spent in prison awaiting trial.
If he committed a "civil" crime whilst AWOL it would be normal to be tried in the civil system - he would have been handed over to the military authorities at the end of sentence.
In this context the recognizance would have not have been related to bail, but would be the equivalent of being "bound over" or a "conditional discharge" today - i.e. he promised the court that he would behave himself in future ( but obviously didn't), and that could then be taken into account for future sentencing.
Same in 1919 - show that he had been in an industrial school in 1903, the recognizance in 1907 and then his convictions are listed.
"Computed from" is the date the sentence was deemed to be calculated as starting, and could vary to take account of time spent in prison awaiting trial.
If he committed a "civil" crime whilst AWOL it would be normal to be tried in the civil system - he would have been handed over to the military authorities at the end of sentence.
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The Common Room / Re: Suggestions on how to locate hotel staff in 1960s London
« on: Friday 18 April 25 10:24 BST (UK) »
Possibly electoral rolls ( staff may have "lived in"), but given the transitory nature of hotel work, and that many may not have qualified to be on the roll ( too young, or non UK), I think you will be very lucky to find much.
I was a police officer in that area in the 1980s and knew the Kensington Palace Hotel very well - it stood on the corner of De Vere Gardens and Kensington High St. Now gone sadly.
I was a police officer in that area in the 1980s and knew the Kensington Palace Hotel very well - it stood on the corner of De Vere Gardens and Kensington High St. Now gone sadly.
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The Common Room / Re: Help needed with Police Gazette numbers
« on: Wednesday 16 April 25 13:48 BST (UK) »
You have the number, but the file it relates to is probably long gone.
Even if it did survive it would only be a list of his convictions and the same information could probably be obtained by looking at newspapers, court records and prison records (which mostly do survive).
CRO records were digitised in the 1990s and other than perhaps for a few notable individuals paper records of that age wouldn't have been kept.
Even if it did survive it would only be a list of his convictions and the same information could probably be obtained by looking at newspapers, court records and prison records (which mostly do survive).
CRO records were digitised in the 1990s and other than perhaps for a few notable individuals paper records of that age wouldn't have been kept.
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The Common Room / Re: Help needed with Police Gazette numbers
« on: Wednesday 16 April 25 09:36 BST (UK) »
The CRO reference isn't a specific case. It stands for Criminal Record Office.
It is the number he was allocated when first arrested, and identifies the file that would contain all his criminal history. It would stay the same throughout his criminal career.
As a police officer many years ago I dealt with a few "regulars" who could quite happily quote their CRO number to you when they got arrested, and one young lady who even had it as a tattoo.
Any address mentioned I would expect to be one they were believed to have a connection to, but yes criminals/prisoners do lie.
It is the number he was allocated when first arrested, and identifies the file that would contain all his criminal history. It would stay the same throughout his criminal career.
As a police officer many years ago I dealt with a few "regulars" who could quite happily quote their CRO number to you when they got arrested, and one young lady who even had it as a tattoo.
Any address mentioned I would expect to be one they were believed to have a connection to, but yes criminals/prisoners do lie.
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Family History Beginners Board / Re: registering a birth in the 1860's
« on: Monday 14 April 25 10:13 BST (UK) »
No proof of marriage (or name) would be required - the information is taken as the informant gives it. That is still largely the case today.
You are however misunderstanding how birth registration works - In E/W the child was given no surname at all until 1969, so the entries are INDEXED under the surname of one or both parents depending on who is named on the entry, and their (claimed) marital status.
It is impossible to determine what is on the entry with absolute accuracy from the indexes alone.
I would like to know if it was possible to register a child's birth in 1860 with the father's surname and mmn correct but they didn't marry till a few months after the birth of child?
You are however misunderstanding how birth registration works - In E/W the child was given no surname at all until 1969, so the entries are INDEXED under the surname of one or both parents depending on who is named on the entry, and their (claimed) marital status.
It is impossible to determine what is on the entry with absolute accuracy from the indexes alone.