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Yes -  although there is the Samuel Sugden who with his siblings Elizabeth, John were born in a row ( 1765,1766,1770) at St Leonards to Samuel and Elizabeth of Worship Street. His age would be exactly right in 1841. But it seems difficult to say with certainty that the other Samuel born in Leeds is his son...why would there be this constant movement between Yorkshire and London in the 18th and early 19th century when transport was so primitive and the distances so great. It would make more sense if 1798 Samuel had been born in London!

Regards
Phil

So that means we can say that Samuel junior(1798) IS the son of Samuel (b1770) ?

In my notes I have a marriage of Hannah Maria  to Richard Bartlett at St Mary Magdalen, Bermondsey on 22 January 1826. Then later we have their child Louisa Bartlett , b or c. 6/9/1845 in Dorking. (Dorking connection again!)

And Louisa Bartlett  (aged 15 born in Dorking) is down as niece to Sarah ( Samuel jnr's sister) aged 46 in the 1861 Aldermanbury census ( didn't note whether 12 or 16).
John Sugden is on the 1871 census at Highbury Grove aged 45, and he died 3/11/1884 at 29, Highbury Grove.

Phil

Great stuff Valda...I'll get looking again at my notes!

Many thanks as ever!

Phil

Hi Valda,

I remember at the beginning of this thread that you said perhaps there is no connection between the Samuel Sugden born in Leeds in 1798 and the Samuel Sugden born in Shoreditch in 1770.
I'm not sure myself now - however I've been able to find a couple of connections:

1) Both of them were registered as artificial florists at some time in their lives ( although that by itself could just be coincidence)

2) The only connection that seems to show a link is the Rodney Street address: as far as I can see, Samuel 1798 had 2 children registered (Louise 1832 and Mary Ann 1833) with Rodney Street
as his address.  After that he is only found in Hornsey I think.

However, in 1841, Samuel 1770 is living there with Sarah aged 30 ( not born in borough) . I'm not sure who this Sarah is? Is it Samuel 1770's daughter?(For which I don't think I have a birth...there is a Sarah born to him in Dorking but that was in 1829 )
 Or is she related to Samuel 1798?
Either way, both Samuels seem to have a common connection with this Rodney Street address!

3) Finally, it is curious that Samuel 1798 ( who I think is the father of the illegitimate child) gives Rodney St as the address when he takes Rachel Rawlinson ( called Sugden for convenience we imagine) to register the child. So there is another connection. I cannot believe it is the 1770 Samuel who is the father ...he was 70 !!!( And the other Samuel was living in Hornsey with Rachel's sister)

What do you think Valda? Is there any other connection which could establish whether the 2 Samuel's are related?
Grateful for any help as ever.
Thanks.
Phil

Sorry Valda!!!  There's been so much activity on this thread, I forgot to check!!
Thanks again!!!

Phil