1
Warwickshire / Re: Jane Morris - When was she born?
« on: Friday 12 December 25 17:29 GMT (UK) »
Great finds - thank you. I wonder why her ages in census are so off?
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2
Warwickshire / Jane Morris - When was she born?
« on: Thursday 11 December 25 19:17 GMT (UK) »
Hi all
I'm looking into Jane Morris, born in Birmingham, as I want to find her parents, her whereabouts post 1861 and her date of death. Jane married James Roath in Birmingham in 1830 and had a number of children with him as follows:
Jane Roath (1830-1837)
Mary Ann (1831-1871)
John James Roath (1833-1835)
Jane Roath (1836-?)
Richard Roath (1836-?)
John Roath (1838-1920)
George Frederick Roath (1840-1906)
Emily Roath (1841-1846)
Charles Edward Roath (1844-?)
Selina Roath (1846-1847)
In each census (of which I've found her in) her ages and places of birth are as follows:
1841 Wales Census - abt 1811 (not born in county)
1851 back living in England (widowed) - 1816 - Birmingham
1861 - 1813 - Birmingham
In 1861, she had a William (age 10) listed as her son but he is not the child of James Roath, as he had died in 1847. There is also a Henry Roath (age 4) listed as her grandson. There is no birth record on GRO that I can find for him so it is unclear which of her children Henry belongs to. I think it could possibly be her unmarried daughter Mary Ann. It is worth noting here that Jane also had a daughter called Hannah Roath in 1852 (who died in 1854). The father of this child is Charles Roath (according to the birth record) - pearl button maker. The birth was registered by Jane, living in Warf Street, Birmingham. I have no idea who Charles Roath is.
There is a Jane Roath in the 1871 census that could possibly be my Jane. In this census she is listed as a widow and is living with two grandsons - Henry (14) and Arthur (7). I did look at Arthur Roath's record on GRO and his mother's maiden name was Stokes. This has thrown me a little! I wonder, if this IS my Jane, who the two boys belong to. Jane's daughter Mary Ann died in 1871 unmarried, and she was living with Jane in 1861 (alongside brothers Charles 17, George 20 and Henry 10). Mary Ann died in 1871 in Grosvenor Street West, Birmingham. Jane was listed on the death certificate as living in Icknield Port Road, Birmingham. What the Stokes connection is, I am unsure.
The estimated birth year for Jane in the 1871 census is 1807 - quite a difference to previous censuses. Her birth date seems to range from potentially 1807-1816, making finding her parents quite tricky. However, she is consistently recorded as being born in Birmingham. There is a baptism of a Jane Morris in Birmingham in 1812 - father John and mother Mary. Could this be my Jane? Are there other potentials I am missing?
I am also yet to find Jane in census beyond 1871, or a death for her. What became of her?
I'm looking into Jane Morris, born in Birmingham, as I want to find her parents, her whereabouts post 1861 and her date of death. Jane married James Roath in Birmingham in 1830 and had a number of children with him as follows:
Jane Roath (1830-1837)
Mary Ann (1831-1871)
John James Roath (1833-1835)
Jane Roath (1836-?)
Richard Roath (1836-?)
John Roath (1838-1920)
George Frederick Roath (1840-1906)
Emily Roath (1841-1846)
Charles Edward Roath (1844-?)
Selina Roath (1846-1847)
In each census (of which I've found her in) her ages and places of birth are as follows:
1841 Wales Census - abt 1811 (not born in county)
1851 back living in England (widowed) - 1816 - Birmingham
1861 - 1813 - Birmingham
In 1861, she had a William (age 10) listed as her son but he is not the child of James Roath, as he had died in 1847. There is also a Henry Roath (age 4) listed as her grandson. There is no birth record on GRO that I can find for him so it is unclear which of her children Henry belongs to. I think it could possibly be her unmarried daughter Mary Ann. It is worth noting here that Jane also had a daughter called Hannah Roath in 1852 (who died in 1854). The father of this child is Charles Roath (according to the birth record) - pearl button maker. The birth was registered by Jane, living in Warf Street, Birmingham. I have no idea who Charles Roath is.
There is a Jane Roath in the 1871 census that could possibly be my Jane. In this census she is listed as a widow and is living with two grandsons - Henry (14) and Arthur (7). I did look at Arthur Roath's record on GRO and his mother's maiden name was Stokes. This has thrown me a little! I wonder, if this IS my Jane, who the two boys belong to. Jane's daughter Mary Ann died in 1871 unmarried, and she was living with Jane in 1861 (alongside brothers Charles 17, George 20 and Henry 10). Mary Ann died in 1871 in Grosvenor Street West, Birmingham. Jane was listed on the death certificate as living in Icknield Port Road, Birmingham. What the Stokes connection is, I am unsure.
The estimated birth year for Jane in the 1871 census is 1807 - quite a difference to previous censuses. Her birth date seems to range from potentially 1807-1816, making finding her parents quite tricky. However, she is consistently recorded as being born in Birmingham. There is a baptism of a Jane Morris in Birmingham in 1812 - father John and mother Mary. Could this be my Jane? Are there other potentials I am missing?
I am also yet to find Jane in census beyond 1871, or a death for her. What became of her?
3
Worcestershire / Oldbury Cemetery
« on: Tuesday 19 August 25 09:21 BST (UK) »
I know Sandwell could come under Staffordshire or Worcestershire depending on time in history, but I'm posting this in this forum in the hope that someone will have information.
I'm looking to know if a map exists of the graves at Oldbury Cemetery. Does anyone know where I could get one?
I'm looking to know if a map exists of the graves at Oldbury Cemetery. Does anyone know where I could get one?
4
Warwickshire / Re: Who was the mother?
« on: Saturday 21 June 25 13:54 BST (UK) »
Yes, the child Samuel Onions's death was reported by a Catherine Yates of 8 Court Moor Street. She is presumably a neighbour. The father, Samuel Onions's death was informed by a surgeon of Queen's Hospital.
5
Warwickshire / Re: Who was the mother?
« on: Saturday 21 June 25 10:43 BST (UK) »
I'm coming back to this person to tie up some loose ends.
The Priscilla Hughes baptised in 1827 was an interesting possibility, despite the age not tallying with the age given on census. However, is it likely that the Priscilla Hughes born in 1827 married William Hancocks in Worcester in 1846? She is listed as a minor, and father's name William Hughes (a nailer). Was age 19 classed as a minor?
The baptism record is interesting because the date of birth is listed, when the majority of others on the page (and many other pages in that record) do not have this listed. Could the 'Born 1st June 1827' actually be 'Born 1st June 1821'? I've looked at it but it does still look a little like a 7. Which doesn't fully explain why the birth date would need to be listed.
I had got Priscilla in the 1841 census (given to me by someone else - I've not actually seen the census image) as follows:
Navigation Street, Birmingham
Willm Richards, 43 - Shop Keeper, Warwickshire
Mary Richards, 40 - Warwickshire
Sarah Richards, 7 - Warwickshire
Susana Richards, 3 - Warwickshire
Eliza Richards, 1 - Warwickshire
Prisc Hughes, 20 - Warwickshire
It's interesting because Priscilla later married a John Richards, though his father was James Richards.
I've also found today another Priscilla Hughes (spelt Precella) in 1841 in Birmingham as follows:
New Canal St, Birmingham
Charles Hughes 20 - shoe maker
Precella Hughes 20
Catherine Hughes 1
Edwards Letts 20 - show maker (not born in county)
All Hughes's born in county.
Assuming Priscilla and Charles are married and Catherine is their daughter, I looked for them in 1851. No sign of them.
I did find their daughter's baptism though - Catherine Priscilla Hughes born 26 Jul 1840 and baptised 19 Jan 1841. There are no other children of this couple that I have found.
Any ideas if the Priscilla in Birmingham in 1841 (with Charles Hughes and daughter Catherine) could be mine? I know my Priscilla had her first child (Elizabeth Onions) in 1847 with Samuel Onions (who she appears to have never married). I think IF I could find out more information about this family it would at least help to rule them out.
Or is my Priscilla the one living with the Richards family in 1841? If so, is that family somehow connected to the man she would later marry - John Richards (father James).
The Priscilla Hughes baptised in 1827 was an interesting possibility, despite the age not tallying with the age given on census. However, is it likely that the Priscilla Hughes born in 1827 married William Hancocks in Worcester in 1846? She is listed as a minor, and father's name William Hughes (a nailer). Was age 19 classed as a minor?
The baptism record is interesting because the date of birth is listed, when the majority of others on the page (and many other pages in that record) do not have this listed. Could the 'Born 1st June 1827' actually be 'Born 1st June 1821'? I've looked at it but it does still look a little like a 7. Which doesn't fully explain why the birth date would need to be listed.
I had got Priscilla in the 1841 census (given to me by someone else - I've not actually seen the census image) as follows:
Navigation Street, Birmingham
Willm Richards, 43 - Shop Keeper, Warwickshire
Mary Richards, 40 - Warwickshire
Sarah Richards, 7 - Warwickshire
Susana Richards, 3 - Warwickshire
Eliza Richards, 1 - Warwickshire
Prisc Hughes, 20 - Warwickshire
It's interesting because Priscilla later married a John Richards, though his father was James Richards.
I've also found today another Priscilla Hughes (spelt Precella) in 1841 in Birmingham as follows:
New Canal St, Birmingham
Charles Hughes 20 - shoe maker
Precella Hughes 20
Catherine Hughes 1
Edwards Letts 20 - show maker (not born in county)
All Hughes's born in county.
Assuming Priscilla and Charles are married and Catherine is their daughter, I looked for them in 1851. No sign of them.
I did find their daughter's baptism though - Catherine Priscilla Hughes born 26 Jul 1840 and baptised 19 Jan 1841. There are no other children of this couple that I have found.
Any ideas if the Priscilla in Birmingham in 1841 (with Charles Hughes and daughter Catherine) could be mine? I know my Priscilla had her first child (Elizabeth Onions) in 1847 with Samuel Onions (who she appears to have never married). I think IF I could find out more information about this family it would at least help to rule them out.
Or is my Priscilla the one living with the Richards family in 1841? If so, is that family somehow connected to the man she would later marry - John Richards (father James).
6
Warwickshire / Re: Who was Ellen Robinson and what became of her?
« on: Friday 30 May 25 11:27 BST (UK) »There is another George & Mary Robinson on 1851 census - no children
1851c Piece 2052 Folio 186 Page number 46
Gas Street Birmingham
George Robinson 35 Head occ labourer
Mary Robinson 21 Wife
James Watkin 42 Visitor
The above George Robinson pob Dudley Worcester and Mary’s pob is dittoed Dudley Worcester
1851c https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGZN-DVP?lang=en
This census could be the same family as in 1861? Though the birth place for George is different.
If so, this is what made me question whether the above George is the correct one, because my Ellen Robinson was apparently born in 1850. Therefore she'd surely appear on this census. Unless, as I said, the Ellen in 1861 really is my Ellen and she was born later than claimed on her marriage certificate and in the 1871 census. In the 1871 census she was living with her husband John's parents so they may not have known her real age perhaps?
Which then brings me back to the question - where is her birth registration on GRO?
Given the age gap between George and Mary, I do think there's a chance he was married before. If so, Ellen may have had a different mother, or she could be the illegitimate child of Mary Wright.
7
Warwickshire / Re: Who was Ellen Robinson and what became of her?
« on: Friday 30 May 25 11:16 BST (UK) »
@Ladyhawk Thank you so much for looking into this.
On the 1861 census it appears that the ages of George and Mary were written in the wrong place. So the 29 crossed out next to Ellen should have been Mary's age above. I do believe this Ellen was indeed aged 7.
In which case, she couldn't be my Ellen who married in 1868. I doubt she'd have been able to marry at 14? She was apparently 17 at the time of her marriage to John...unless she lied about her age. But why? And was this even possible? She isn't listed as having an occupation on her marriage record, but that might not be uncommon.
IF the Ellen in 1861 is my Ellen, then she would have been born around 1854.
(As an aside, the only Ellen Robinson I could find with MMN Wright was an Ellen Wright Robinson born in King's Lynn in 1848.)
There is an Ellen Mary Robinson born in Birmingham in 1852 - MMN Bosward.
This is a real conundrum. It makes sense that the family in 1861 to be the correct one, because of the father's name George and the Mary living with them. I just can't understand the age given for Ellen. If she really was 7 in 1861 and she is the one who married John Richmond then she must have been underage when she married. However, if she WAS 17 at the time of marriage (making her age in the 1871 census correct) then this family cannot be the right one.
On the 1861 census it appears that the ages of George and Mary were written in the wrong place. So the 29 crossed out next to Ellen should have been Mary's age above. I do believe this Ellen was indeed aged 7.
In which case, she couldn't be my Ellen who married in 1868. I doubt she'd have been able to marry at 14? She was apparently 17 at the time of her marriage to John...unless she lied about her age. But why? And was this even possible? She isn't listed as having an occupation on her marriage record, but that might not be uncommon.
IF the Ellen in 1861 is my Ellen, then she would have been born around 1854.
(As an aside, the only Ellen Robinson I could find with MMN Wright was an Ellen Wright Robinson born in King's Lynn in 1848.)
There is an Ellen Mary Robinson born in Birmingham in 1852 - MMN Bosward.
This is a real conundrum. It makes sense that the family in 1861 to be the correct one, because of the father's name George and the Mary living with them. I just can't understand the age given for Ellen. If she really was 7 in 1861 and she is the one who married John Richmond then she must have been underage when she married. However, if she WAS 17 at the time of marriage (making her age in the 1871 census correct) then this family cannot be the right one.
8
Warwickshire / Re: Who was Ellen Robinson and what became of her?
« on: Wednesday 28 May 25 15:56 BST (UK) »
I'm not sure how to look for particular streets in the census. This would be a useful thing to do though.
9
Warwickshire / Who was Ellen Robinson and what became of her?
« on: Wednesday 28 May 25 13:33 BST (UK) »
I'm at a lost when it comes to tracing the parents of Ellen Robinson, born abt 1850.
All I know about her is that she married John Richmond in 1868. On the marriage record, she is listed as 17 years old, and living in Navigation Street, Birmingham. Her father is listed as being George Robinson, a labourer. One of the witnesses of the marriage was Mary Robinson.
I have only managed to find Ellen in the 1871 census, living with her husband and his parents (Charles & Mary Richmond). She is listed as being born in Birmingham on that census.
I know she had two children - Elizabeth (1871-1872) & Charles (1869-1953 - I know a lot about him).
Ellen's husband John Richmond died in 1872. From then on, I have been unable to find Ellen in any census. She may have remarried.
I also have no idea who her parents were. Besides a father's name George and the link to Navigation Street.
Who was Ellen Robinson? I can't find her in census earlier than 1871. Did she re-marry? I would love to know if she went on to marry and have more children.
ADDED INFO: Ellen's daughter Elizabeth, who died in 1872, died at Essington Street so Ellen would have been living there at the time. Sadly the informant of the death is the coroner and not Ellen, so I still don't know if Ellen remarried.
All I know about her is that she married John Richmond in 1868. On the marriage record, she is listed as 17 years old, and living in Navigation Street, Birmingham. Her father is listed as being George Robinson, a labourer. One of the witnesses of the marriage was Mary Robinson.
I have only managed to find Ellen in the 1871 census, living with her husband and his parents (Charles & Mary Richmond). She is listed as being born in Birmingham on that census.
I know she had two children - Elizabeth (1871-1872) & Charles (1869-1953 - I know a lot about him).
Ellen's husband John Richmond died in 1872. From then on, I have been unable to find Ellen in any census. She may have remarried.
I also have no idea who her parents were. Besides a father's name George and the link to Navigation Street.
Who was Ellen Robinson? I can't find her in census earlier than 1871. Did she re-marry? I would love to know if she went on to marry and have more children.
ADDED INFO: Ellen's daughter Elizabeth, who died in 1872, died at Essington Street so Ellen would have been living there at the time. Sadly the informant of the death is the coroner and not Ellen, so I still don't know if Ellen remarried.