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« on: Saturday 07 August 10 19:40 BST (UK) »
The lack of any marriage record has been a huge problem for those of us trying to research this family.
This is what I know:
Agnes Stuart Ramsden was born in 1861 in Ashton Under Lyne to William Ramsden and Helen (Ellen) Baird. I've got her on the 1861, 1871, and 1881 census there.
John is a bit of a mystery, but according to the poster who had Nellie's death certificate, he said he was born in London, Middlesex. I don't have him on any census in England, simply because I don't know which John Arnold he is since it's such a common name. I have him in 1900 and 1910 in the US and on one he says his birth date is Mar 1849 and on the other it simply states he was born about 1845. The other confusion is that in 1900, he says that he was born in England and his parents were born in Scotland. On the 1910 census, he says that he was born in Scotland, his father was born in England and his mother was born in Scotland.
What we've always been told was that John and Agnes married in England, had Nellie (or Helen) in 1887 and then immigrated the US and settled in Pennsylvania where the rest of their children were born.
The only problem with that accounting is that there doesn't seem to be any documentation to support their marriage and no one can find Nellie's birth registration either.
They are living in Mercersburg, PA in 1900 and indicated on the census that they married in 1885, but they also say that they immigrated to the US in 1883, but that Nellie, who was born in 1887, immigrated in 1887. Based on this, I've wondered if perhaps they married earlier than was thought and that Agnes may have gone back to England to have Nellie and then she returned to the US with her after she was born. Another option is that Nellie was born out of wedlock and they married in the US rather than in England.
I'm also thinking it's possible that they may not have registered Nellie's birth. The reason I'm thinking this is that according to my husband's grandmother (who the direct descendant of Agnes), all of the rest of the children in the family were born in Wilkes-Barre PA and John and Agnes never bothered to register their births so they obviously didn't think that kind of thing was important.
John and Agnes were living separately by 1910 (she was in Somerville, MA and he was in Philadelphia). When they filled out the census that year, Agnes says that she immigrated in 1875 and John states that he immigrated in 1888 which would actually make the most sense of any of the dates since supposedly Nellie was born in England in 1887 and the next child, Emily, was born in Pennsylvania in 1889. I also wonder if Agnes' memory was going by that time since she indicated she didn't know where her parents were born although in 1900 she had said that they were from Scotland (which is actually only true for her mother).
As a result of all of this confusion, I've searched for a Nellie Ramsden born around 1887 in the Staffordshire area and haven't found one whose parents were John and Agnes. I actually haven't found any child registered anywhere to parents named John and Agnes Arnold or Ramsden. I also have not been able to find any record of these two getting married.
One other bit of information I was able to glean out of my searches is John's middle name. On all of his records, he's always John S. Arnold. I have found him in the Wilkes-Barre, PA city directory several years in a row working as a cook or a chef. Most years it simply says John S. Arnold, but on one year they spelled out his middle name as Sibley. So, if that name means anything to anyone, or if anyone has any ideas if this would help me narrow down my list of John Arnolds, I'd appreciate it.
By the way, Nellie died in 1901 in Pennsylvania so she never married.
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