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Messages - ramptonlyles

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Family History Beginners Board / Re: Great Great Grandfather Suicide 1897?
« on: Wednesday 06 February 13 23:52 GMT (UK)  »
Dear Ryan,
These will be my final thoughts. I looked and found there  were a fair number of references to him in the Leicester Chronicle. He was incidentally a freemen's deputy there [a Leicester institution, this, which can be googled]. Regarding his departure this was in the issue of Saturday 1 October 1887  under the heading "Terrible Suicide of a Leicester Builder": 'Intelligence was received in Leicester late on Wednesday evening that Mr H T Mortimer, builder, of St Nicholas Street, had been found dead at Manchester with his throat cut. From inquiries since made we hear that the deceased had been very unwell for some weeks past and about a fortnight ago went to Matlock for the benefit of his health. He was visited there by some of his friends as recently as Saturday last and the family had no knowledge of his having left Matlock when the sad news of his death was received by the Head Constable (Mr J Duns) from the police authorities at Manchester. The melancholy intelligence was conveyed to Mrs Mortimer by Detective-Inspector Mardlin and some of the family, we understand, started for Manchester on Thursday morning. The deceased had for some years been in business in the town, and one of his latest undertakings was the large building in Southgate Street now in course of erection...'  From other references it seems the business did not long survive him his stock-in-trade being sold off in 1888 and there was evidently some form of legal action against his estate, Pochin v Mortimer, which carried on for several years in the High Court, though it's not obvious what it was about. Good luck with the search. Though it's a sad story it doesn't lack interest and there's a slight chance there might be one or two of his buildings surviving in Leicester which still has plenty of Victorian architecture.       

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Family History Beginners Board / Re: Great Great Grandfather Suicide 1897?
« on: Wednesday 06 February 13 22:39 GMT (UK)  »
Dear Ryan,
I suspect all Kevin suggests is very probably right. Mr Mortimer would of course have travelled by train - no other way. Leicester to Matlock Bath railway station or Matlock proper is still easy. Now, effectively, these stations are at the end of the line. But in the 1880s there was a recently added (now disused) line from Matlock to Buxton and then on up to Manchester; it went through Didsbury (then a major railway station - now demolished). For reasons which I don't suppose we shall ever know after taking "the cure" he decided to go north rather than back to Leicester. 

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Family History Beginners Board / Re: Great Great Grandfather Suicide 1897?
« on: Wednesday 06 February 13 21:03 GMT (UK)  »
Dear Mr Mortimer,
A somewhat tasteless listing of suicides in The Leeds Times 1 October 1887 confirms what I suspect you already know. It includes: "A gentleman named Mortimer from Leicester was observed standing at the window of an empty house at Didsbury covered with blood. It was found that his throat was cut, both arteries being severed. He died in half-an-hour, £6-11s-2d, a watch chain and a letter from his wife were found upon him. Deceased had lately stayed at Matlock for his health." In addition the will was proved at Leicester in March 1888 by Harriett Mortimer, of 24 Nicholas Street, Leicester, of her husband Henry Thomas Mortimer of Leicester, builder, who died 28 September 1887 at Didsbury. He left a fair sum gross for the time, but what it was net I don't know.
 

4
Dorset / Re: Derby winning jockey of 1862 , on Caractacus
« on: Tuesday 29 January 13 17:14 GMT (UK)  »
Perhaps I could just rather belatedly clarify one point. The jockey of Caractacus was indeed James rather than John Parsons as the records now have it. Victorians weren't especially keen on first names and I doubt if Day, Snewing and the other interested parties ever knew him other than by his surname. He was the Cranbourne-born stable lad who worked for William Day and when Day fell out - as he always did - with Mr Snewing he went so-to-speak with the horse. The Derby was his third and final win as a jockey. He advertised in "Bell's Life" for further rides but they didn't come. The various censuses show his subsequent career, marriages and numerous children. His death in London was briefly noted in "The Sporting Life" (20 May 1907) though I think his circumstances weren't as reduced as it suggests. As a curiosity in 1957 Captain Noel Newton who lived in Rutland and was a well-known racehorse owner and sometime trainer was then employing as a groom an 84 year old who was one of JP's sons. So the racing links continued to comparatively recently. Some confusion has arisen out of a contemporary jockey called George Parsons (d1897) who was unrelated but several years older. He was listed simply as "Parsons" in "The Racing Calendar" and some racing historians have mistakenly assumed they are the same jockey which would have made Caractacus's jockey to be well over sixteen.

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Flintshire Lookup Requests / Re: Wetherells in Ysceifiog
« on: Tuesday 13 July 10 21:35 BST (UK)  »
Dear Rah1980,
About Holywell Racecourse. As I said I am an amateur in this field. The authority on dead racecourses is Chris Pitt, racing journalist and author of (amongst others) "A long time gone" which covers racecourses which expired after 1900. I nicked the date 1852 from an appendix inside listing earlier departures. If material is available he is the person to contact. Most of the early smaller racecourses tended to have temporary stands at the best as they were usually used only once a year and often the actual course might vary a bit year from year but whether this applied to Holywell I wouldn't know.   
                                          Yrs, etc,
                                        Ramptonlyles

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Flintshire Lookup Requests / Re: Wetherells in Ysceifiog
« on: Monday 12 July 10 20:33 BST (UK)  »
Dear "Warkworth",
Many thanks for your kind notes and confirming what I had suspected, that the various Wetherells I had come across in racing history over the years were related. One, incidentally, rode the winner of the 1899 Royal Hunt Cup. In addition I know of an Edward who trained at Beverley,etc, - whether he's connected I don't know.
I think I should explain Holywell because of its superb turf was in its time a famous racing centre with several stables based there. Sadly unlike Middleham for one reason or another this all came to an end as did Holywell Racecourse - it ceased in 1852 so I suppose Mr Wetherell would have been its last clerk of the course. In racing history terms I would say he was a minor player, but an important minor player. I would think he made money in his time but as with most people in racing the difficulty is in keeping it! [I speak as a gambler]. The most famous of the Holywell trainers was John Blenkhorn as mentioned above by one of your correspondents who trained the 1835 St Leger winner for Mr (later Ld) Mostyn) but "Honest John" was employed as Mostyn's private trainer while I would guess Mr W rented the stable in his own right - Mostyn lived to a great age but he (like most owners) faded out of racing. There's no money in racing though I might add commission agents who played a very important role before betting shops were legalised could do better than most! In passing Ld Waterford would probably have been in a strait-jacket had he not been a peer; his various trainers must have had an interesting time. There weren't trainers' championships in those days but had there been Mr W would have been champion trainer in Ireland. After his death I see the Bentinck committee awarded "Mrs Mary Weatherell" a pension two-thirds that of her husband's but they later altered the spelling to yours so I shall use that in future.
                                            Yrs, etc,
                                           Ramptonlyles

 
 had there

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Flintshire Lookup Requests / Re: Wetherells in Ysceifiog
« on: Monday 12 July 10 17:30 BST (UK)  »
Dear Warkworth,
I don't know much about family history but I am an enthusiastic if amateur student of racing history. Some years ago I wrote this as an entry in a little biographical dictionary of racehorse trainers in Berkshire and I don't know if it's of any use:-
   "WEATHERALL William (c1803-1881). William Weatherall is listed as training at Upper Lambourn for much of the 1860s. He was a Berkshire subscriber to the Racing Calendar in 1868 and 1869. Weatherall worked for the Hambleton trainer Robert Hesseltine, before becoming private trainer for several years at Delamere Forest to Mr Worthington - they had 4 horses in 1844 and 1848 - who gave him permission at the end of the latter year to go public. In the early 1850s he was training a small string (e.g. 6 horses in 1850) as a public trainer at Mostyn Stables, Hollywell, and acting as clerk of the course at Holywell Racecourse, moving on in 1854 to Middleham. Two years later he was handling 4 horses and saddled the winner of the Portland Handicap. In 1858 and 1859 he was engaged as private trainer in Ireland to Lord Waterford's stable at Curraghmore in succession to Richard Prince but his employer was killed in the hunting field in March 1859 and his vast stud - the largest and most successful in Ireland - was sold soon afterwards. Weatherall trained no less than 37 winners for him in 1858. In 1864 he moved to the old yard at Upper Lambourn where John Prince had once trained for Mr Merry which had stabling for 24 horses and advertised for new owners with little success. He had 8 horses in 1865 and  half this the following year while operating as a public trainer. In 1868 he had a string of 12. By 1869 he was at East Ilsley with 4 horses. In 1870 having moved to Richmond he advertised for owners or as a job as a private trainer. William Weatherall died at Beverley on 21 January 1881  aged 77. [His name is sometimes spelt Wetherell and other variations]."   
   If there are any points arising from this I'd be happy to answer them. His spellings varied widely in Ruff, Bell's Life, Sporting Life and in  the Bentinck Fund reports - he was, of course, as I expect you know a Bentinck pensioner during his final years.   
                                           Yrs, etc,
                                        Ramptonlyles

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