1
Armed Forces / Re: Abbreviation: what is O i/c Supplies?
« on: Sunday 27 November 22 21:22 GMT (UK) »
Thanks both, that's what I thought, confirmation is great! Cheers -- Paddy
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2
Armed Forces / Abbreviation: what is O i/c Supplies?
« on: Sunday 27 November 22 19:32 GMT (UK) »
Abbreviation: what is O i/c Supplies please?
Cheers
Paddy
Cheers
Paddy
3
Devon Lookup Requests / Re: Tiverton Parish Records: James ELSON b: 1789 Tiverton
« on: Saturday 16 December 17 22:14 GMT (UK) »
Thanks again Ciderdrinker: that extra information made a HUGE difference! I'm fully confident now that my Hilson/Elson roots are in Tiverton. In particular the spouse names have pointed to new census appearances for family members, lodged with in-laws etc, and with worker positions at the local lace mill.
I found John Junior m Joanna Berry as a widower in retirement on the 1851 census with son-in-law (station master) at Barnstable, occ. "retired porter to coal merchant".
Luvly Jubbly!
Thanks, and thanks to this Forum!
Paddy
I found John Junior m Joanna Berry as a widower in retirement on the 1851 census with son-in-law (station master) at Barnstable, occ. "retired porter to coal merchant".
Luvly Jubbly!
Thanks, and thanks to this Forum!
Paddy
4
Devon Lookup Requests / Re: Tiverton Parish Records: James ELSON b: 1789 Tiverton
« on: Friday 15 December 17 15:12 GMT (UK) »
Thank you Ciderdrinker, very helpful indeed! Will map into my tree tonight... Regards -- Paddy
5
Devon Lookup Requests / Tiverton Parish Records: James ELSON b: 1789 Tiverton
« on: Thursday 14 December 17 20:38 GMT (UK) »
James Elson is my GGG grandfather, he moved to London and changed the spelling of his name to Hilson. His son by Ann Young Brown, Robert Henry Hilson, was a tobacconist, and his sons (one of which, Francis, was my great grandfather) moved to Brighton in Sussex, becoming publicans. All quite traceable on the censuses!
I'm trying now to track sideways and back in the Tiverton roots: all I have to go on is James' parents, John Elson and Mary Hodge marriage on 5 Feb 1780 at St Peters Church, Tiverton
I'm trying now to track sideways and back in the Tiverton roots: all I have to go on is James' parents, John Elson and Mary Hodge marriage on 5 Feb 1780 at St Peters Church, Tiverton
6
Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition / Re: Army/Equine meeting photo for identification
« on: Monday 07 August 17 21:22 BST (UK) »
Someone on the Kipling Society newsgroup advised me that Taft has written a 108 page letter to his children describing his visit to the UK - and deep joy, the British Library had a microfilm copy! So we now have a date and venue.
It seems that the lunch, partly for IWGC to thank for the King's Pilgrimage to the war graves and partly for Taft invisit, was held in a pavilion in the gardens of Clarence House, though the Royal Archive say "Due to our holding very sparse records relating to Clarence House, I have no information on what is possibly a garden pavilion in the photograph."
Lunch at Clarence House, 3rd July 1922, account by William Howard Taft, former US President.
"The Duke [of Connaught] lives at Clarence House, a very pleasant home I should judge, and he had with him at the time his daughter Patricia and her husband Captain Ramsey, for she married a commoner, as well as his daughter-in-law, Princess Arthur of Connaught. Her husband, the Duke’s son, is the Governor General of South Africa, and she had just returned from there, leaving her husband on duty. Earl Balfour, Lord Desborough, the active men of the Pilgrims, Mr and Mrs Rudyard Kipling, Winston Churchill and his wife, and an aide who had accompanied Princess Arthur from South Africa were also there. The Earl of Cavan, who is now the Chief of Staff of the British Army, and possibly one or two others, whose names I have forgotten, were also members of the party."
So here is revised listing:
1 Princess Arthur of Connaught (formerly Princess Alexandra, Duchess of Fife)
2 Earl of Cavan, Field Marshal Frederick Lambart, Chief of Army Staff
3 Lady Patricia Ramsey (formerly Princess Patricia of Connaught, daughter of Duke)
4 Prince Arthur, Duke of Connaught and Strathearn, son of Victoria, masonic Grand Master
5 General Sir Horace Lockwood Smith-Dorrien, Governor of Gibraltar
6 Caroline Starr “Carrie” Kipling, wife of Rudyard (née Balestier)
7 Elsie Kipling, daughter of Carrie and Rudyard
8 Rudyard Kipling, poet, writer, advisor to the Imperial War Graves Commission, and founder member of masonic “Builders of the Silent Cities” lodge for IWGC staff.
9 Captain George Bambridge, diplomat. Marries Elsie Kipling in 1924.
12 Helen “Nellie” Taft, wife of William [13]
13 US Chief Justice and former US President William Howard Taft, wrote about this event.
14 Sir Reginald Theodore Blomfield, IWGC memorial architect (Menin Gate, Ypres)
15 Captain William Masters, R.A.S.C, in whose collection this photo was found.
16 Lt-Col Herbert “Tom” Goodland, Deputy Controller, Imperial War Graves Commission
17 Sir John Simon, Attorney General, later to become Home Secretary and Lord Chancellor
18 Sir John James Burnet, prominent Scots architect, IWCG commissions Gallipoli, Palestine
23 William Henry Grenfell, 1st Baron Desborough, athlete, public servant and politician
25 Possibly Winston Churchill, said to be present with wife Clementine [24] by Taft
27 Sir Robert Stodart Lorimer, Scots Arts & Crafts architect, IWCG Naval memorials
28 Sir James Allen, High Commissioner to New Zealand, connected with IWGC
29 Sir Frederic Kenyon, Director and Principal Librarian, British Museum, IWGC advisor
30 Waitress
I've trawled and trawled for images of Clarence House gardens in the 1920s but not had luck: Am going to visit the NA in Kew in September and have a look through the "Works on Clarence House 1920-1943" file, will report back.
Meantime, see if you agree with where I think it is, building still exists but now a trellis-covered wall from the garden side.
Paddy
It seems that the lunch, partly for IWGC to thank for the King's Pilgrimage to the war graves and partly for Taft invisit, was held in a pavilion in the gardens of Clarence House, though the Royal Archive say "Due to our holding very sparse records relating to Clarence House, I have no information on what is possibly a garden pavilion in the photograph."
Lunch at Clarence House, 3rd July 1922, account by William Howard Taft, former US President.
"The Duke [of Connaught] lives at Clarence House, a very pleasant home I should judge, and he had with him at the time his daughter Patricia and her husband Captain Ramsey, for she married a commoner, as well as his daughter-in-law, Princess Arthur of Connaught. Her husband, the Duke’s son, is the Governor General of South Africa, and she had just returned from there, leaving her husband on duty. Earl Balfour, Lord Desborough, the active men of the Pilgrims, Mr and Mrs Rudyard Kipling, Winston Churchill and his wife, and an aide who had accompanied Princess Arthur from South Africa were also there. The Earl of Cavan, who is now the Chief of Staff of the British Army, and possibly one or two others, whose names I have forgotten, were also members of the party."
So here is revised listing:
1 Princess Arthur of Connaught (formerly Princess Alexandra, Duchess of Fife)
2 Earl of Cavan, Field Marshal Frederick Lambart, Chief of Army Staff
3 Lady Patricia Ramsey (formerly Princess Patricia of Connaught, daughter of Duke)
4 Prince Arthur, Duke of Connaught and Strathearn, son of Victoria, masonic Grand Master
5 General Sir Horace Lockwood Smith-Dorrien, Governor of Gibraltar
6 Caroline Starr “Carrie” Kipling, wife of Rudyard (née Balestier)
7 Elsie Kipling, daughter of Carrie and Rudyard
8 Rudyard Kipling, poet, writer, advisor to the Imperial War Graves Commission, and founder member of masonic “Builders of the Silent Cities” lodge for IWGC staff.
9 Captain George Bambridge, diplomat. Marries Elsie Kipling in 1924.
12 Helen “Nellie” Taft, wife of William [13]
13 US Chief Justice and former US President William Howard Taft, wrote about this event.
14 Sir Reginald Theodore Blomfield, IWGC memorial architect (Menin Gate, Ypres)
15 Captain William Masters, R.A.S.C, in whose collection this photo was found.
16 Lt-Col Herbert “Tom” Goodland, Deputy Controller, Imperial War Graves Commission
17 Sir John Simon, Attorney General, later to become Home Secretary and Lord Chancellor
18 Sir John James Burnet, prominent Scots architect, IWCG commissions Gallipoli, Palestine
23 William Henry Grenfell, 1st Baron Desborough, athlete, public servant and politician
25 Possibly Winston Churchill, said to be present with wife Clementine [24] by Taft
27 Sir Robert Stodart Lorimer, Scots Arts & Crafts architect, IWCG Naval memorials
28 Sir James Allen, High Commissioner to New Zealand, connected with IWGC
29 Sir Frederic Kenyon, Director and Principal Librarian, British Museum, IWGC advisor
30 Waitress
I've trawled and trawled for images of Clarence House gardens in the 1920s but not had luck: Am going to visit the NA in Kew in September and have a look through the "Works on Clarence House 1920-1943" file, will report back.
Meantime, see if you agree with where I think it is, building still exists but now a trellis-covered wall from the garden side.
Paddy
7
Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition / Re: Army/Equine meeting photo for identification
« on: Tuesday 27 March 12 16:21 BST (UK) »
Here is an update, with current thinking on identities:
Identified group members in photo taken early July 1922
5 Donald Sterling Palmer Howard, 3rd Baron Strathcona and Mount Royal.
6 John Simon, 1st Viscount Simon, later to become Home Secretary, Foreign Secretary and Chancellor of the Exchequer: in 1922 he was MP for Spen Valley and deputy leader of the Liberal Party. Husband of No 25.
11 Sir James Allen, NZ High Commissioner. He was appointed an Officer of the Legion of Honour in February 1922 when he was High Commissioner in London.
12 Sir Frederic Kenyon, Director, British Museum
13 Sir Reginald Theodore Blomfield (architect of Menin Gate, Ypres)
14 US Chief Justice William Howard Taft, formerly US President. On three week fact-finding visit to Britain, 16th June-8th July 1922
15 Helen (“Nellie”) Taft, wife of No 14
19 Sir John James Burnett, architect of War memorials at Gallipoli, and Jerusalem
20 Sir Robert Stodard Lorimer, architect of the Scottish National War Memorial at Edinburgh Castle
21 Lt.-Col. Herbert Thomas "Tom" Goodland, Deputy Controller IWGC
22 Captain William Masters, R.A.S.C.
24 Major General Sir Fabian Arthur Goulstone Ware KCVO, KBE, CB, CMG, founder of the Imperial War Graves Commission, now the Commonwealth War Graves Commission
25 Kathleen, Viscountess Simon, Wife of No 6
26 Prince Arthur, Duke of Connaught and Strathearn, son of Queen Victoria. Note black armband: he is in mourning for the death of his close friend Field Marshal Sir Henry Hughes Wilson, shot by IRA gunmen in London, June 22nd 1922.
27 General Sir Horace Lockwood Smith-Dorrien, Governor of Gibraltar. He devoted much his time to the welfare and remembrance of Great War soldiers.
28 Carrie Kipling, wife of No 30
29 Elsie Kipling, daughter of Nos 30 and 28
30 Rudyard Kipling, author. Kipling's role was to advise the IWGC on inscriptions and other literary matters, and he was a founder member together with Tom Goodland (No 21) and others of The Builders of the Silent Cities, a Masonic lodge for IWGC staff.
31 Captain George Louis St Clair Bambridge, Diplomat, of Wimpole Hall, near Cambridge: will marry No 29 in 1924
Thanks again to everyone for their help: will report back once I get a response from CWGC and the Lodge
Paddy
Identified group members in photo taken early July 1922
5 Donald Sterling Palmer Howard, 3rd Baron Strathcona and Mount Royal.
6 John Simon, 1st Viscount Simon, later to become Home Secretary, Foreign Secretary and Chancellor of the Exchequer: in 1922 he was MP for Spen Valley and deputy leader of the Liberal Party. Husband of No 25.
11 Sir James Allen, NZ High Commissioner. He was appointed an Officer of the Legion of Honour in February 1922 when he was High Commissioner in London.
12 Sir Frederic Kenyon, Director, British Museum
13 Sir Reginald Theodore Blomfield (architect of Menin Gate, Ypres)
14 US Chief Justice William Howard Taft, formerly US President. On three week fact-finding visit to Britain, 16th June-8th July 1922
15 Helen (“Nellie”) Taft, wife of No 14
19 Sir John James Burnett, architect of War memorials at Gallipoli, and Jerusalem
20 Sir Robert Stodard Lorimer, architect of the Scottish National War Memorial at Edinburgh Castle
21 Lt.-Col. Herbert Thomas "Tom" Goodland, Deputy Controller IWGC
22 Captain William Masters, R.A.S.C.
24 Major General Sir Fabian Arthur Goulstone Ware KCVO, KBE, CB, CMG, founder of the Imperial War Graves Commission, now the Commonwealth War Graves Commission
25 Kathleen, Viscountess Simon, Wife of No 6
26 Prince Arthur, Duke of Connaught and Strathearn, son of Queen Victoria. Note black armband: he is in mourning for the death of his close friend Field Marshal Sir Henry Hughes Wilson, shot by IRA gunmen in London, June 22nd 1922.
27 General Sir Horace Lockwood Smith-Dorrien, Governor of Gibraltar. He devoted much his time to the welfare and remembrance of Great War soldiers.
28 Carrie Kipling, wife of No 30
29 Elsie Kipling, daughter of Nos 30 and 28
30 Rudyard Kipling, author. Kipling's role was to advise the IWGC on inscriptions and other literary matters, and he was a founder member together with Tom Goodland (No 21) and others of The Builders of the Silent Cities, a Masonic lodge for IWGC staff.
31 Captain George Louis St Clair Bambridge, Diplomat, of Wimpole Hall, near Cambridge: will marry No 29 in 1924
Thanks again to everyone for their help: will report back once I get a response from CWGC and the Lodge
Paddy
8
Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition / Re: Army/Equine meeting photo for identification
« on: Monday 26 March 12 13:28 BST (UK) »
Thanks for all your thoughts Adrian, you make some very convincing arguments! Yes I am preparing to contact the War Graves Commission, just need to put together a sensible and detailed approach, to grab their interest right from the start. Your latest revelations make an even more convincing argument. Hopefully they will respond positively, and we can all start sleeping through the night once again 
Sorry to have missed replying before, the sunshine drew me away to the coast for the weekend!
Regards
Paddy in Wales
Sorry to have missed replying before, the sunshine drew me away to the coast for the weekend!
Regards
Paddy in Wales
9
Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition / Re: Army/Equine meeting photo for identification
« on: Thursday 22 March 12 21:50 GMT (UK) »Paddy, can you identify #21's cap badge on the original?
Look's a bit Royal Berks-ish to me. If so, then I'd hazard the man could be Lt.-Col. Herbert Thomas "Tom" Goodland, 5th Bn Royal Berkshire Regiment and, from 1919 to 1928, Deputy Controller of the Imperial War Graves Commission.
Pre-WW1: http://www.chilliwackmuseum.ca/War_Mem_ss2.html
Post-WW1: http://www.thewardrobe.org.uk/research/the-collection/detail/21829
Adrian
Adrian, can't quite get a sharp enough image of the badge: but I am absolutely convinced you are right, many many thanks! Comparison photo below. A key (and almost final) piece of the jigsaw in place...
Colonel Goodland gets a mention in a letter from Kipling to Elsie on 19 July 1922. Also see the linkage in this text:
"From THE KIPLING JOURNAL No 63, October, 1942
Extract from a lecture by ALBERT FROST entitled Rudyard Kipling’s Masonic Allusions
INTEREST IN WAR GRAVES COMMISSION.
I should be lacking if I did not mention the interest in, and the influence he had over, the Imperial War Graves Commission. It was on his suggestion that the " Stone of Remembrance "in each war cemetery bears the inscription : " Their name liveth for evermore." No more fragrant or appropriate inscription could have been found for the War Graves of France and Flanders than that. When I was personally conducted over several cemeteries a few years ago, I raised my hat in admiration and reverence, and thanked God for Rudyard Kipling. On being subsequently requested by the Staff of this same Commission [Herbert Goodland] to select the name for a Masonic Lodge he said, "I would call it ' The Builders of the Silent Cities'," and so it is. Think of it ! Of this Lodge Kipling was a Founder—membership being open to only those who have taken some active interest in the War Graves Commission."
This tallies with the last paragraph in your chilliwackmuseum link.
And looking at the group photo with new eyes, Colonel Goodland has a key and prominent position.
Everything now points to this photo being taken after a masonic luncheon for The Builders...
Paddy