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London & Middlesex Completed Lookup Requests / Re: Newgate Prison
« on: Saturday 26 June 10 11:35 BST (UK) »
Thank you Chasbaz, Jennifer and Valda for your helpful replies.
Eustace
Eustace
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London & Middlesex Completed Lookup Requests / Newgate Prison
« on: Friday 25 June 10 08:46 BST (UK) »
On the web there is an etching of a one person cell in the old Newgate Prison in 1891. Somehow I have the impression that prisoners in Newgate were kept in large rooms.
Does anyone know if prisoners would have been in small cells in 1830 ?
Eustace
Does anyone know if prisoners would have been in small cells in 1830 ?
Eustace
3
Hampshire & Isle of Wight / Re: convicts walking
« on: Tuesday 22 June 10 12:45 BST (UK) »
Hello Bilge
I see now that you sent me the excellent references to prisons and hulks. Many thanks !
I had not seen the reference. I have skimmed the text and noticed tha tit leads to other references. It will take me a little time to read it all carefully.
I had read of the York rebellion. It occurred after the time of my convict, but I am sure he also had a terrible time on the hulk. He was luckier regarding the convict ship. It was one of the few voyages that suffered no loss of life en route.
Eustace
I see now that you sent me the excellent references to prisons and hulks. Many thanks !
I had not seen the reference. I have skimmed the text and noticed tha tit leads to other references. It will take me a little time to read it all carefully.
I had read of the York rebellion. It occurred after the time of my convict, but I am sure he also had a terrible time on the hulk. He was luckier regarding the convict ship. It was one of the few voyages that suffered no loss of life en route.
Eustace
4
Hampshire & Isle of Wight / Re: convicts walking
« on: Tuesday 22 June 10 12:31 BST (UK) »
Hi Ancarred
Thanks for the speculative comment. It is helpful and seems reasonable.
There is a brief record of the voyage. It records the stay at the Cape, but no stop at Portsmouth. This isn't necessary decisive information.
There is a Surgeons report. I knew of it, but it is only on film in the Mitchell Library in Sydney. I have to wait to see it until I go to Sydney again for some other reason.
Thanks for the excellent references to prisoners and hulks. I will go through them carefully.
I can only agree with your comments about conditions on hulks.
Eustace
Thanks for the speculative comment. It is helpful and seems reasonable.
There is a brief record of the voyage. It records the stay at the Cape, but no stop at Portsmouth. This isn't necessary decisive information.
There is a Surgeons report. I knew of it, but it is only on film in the Mitchell Library in Sydney. I have to wait to see it until I go to Sydney again for some other reason.
Thanks for the excellent references to prisoners and hulks. I will go through them carefully.
I can only agree with your comments about conditions on hulks.
Eustace
5
Hampshire & Isle of Wight / Re: convicts walking
« on: Monday 21 June 10 11:07 BST (UK) »
Thanks Andcarred
From your reading, could you suggest the most likely way a group of prisoners from Newgate Prison in London would have been taken to the prison hulk York in Portsmouth in late January 1828 ?
Similarly, could you suggest the most likely way a group of prisoners from the York would have been taken to board a convict ship departing London in November 1828 ?
I note the dates in case the time of year may have been a factor in the choice of means for moving convicts
I don't know in what part of the Port of London the convict ship started the voyage to Australia.
I wonder if the time difference between my convict leaving the York on 11 November and the ship leaving London on 5 January provides any clue to the means of transport ?
Eustace
From your reading, could you suggest the most likely way a group of prisoners from Newgate Prison in London would have been taken to the prison hulk York in Portsmouth in late January 1828 ?
Similarly, could you suggest the most likely way a group of prisoners from the York would have been taken to board a convict ship departing London in November 1828 ?
I note the dates in case the time of year may have been a factor in the choice of means for moving convicts
I don't know in what part of the Port of London the convict ship started the voyage to Australia.
I wonder if the time difference between my convict leaving the York on 11 November and the ship leaving London on 5 January provides any clue to the means of transport ?
Eustace
6
Hampshire & Isle of Wight / Re: convicts walking
« on: Sunday 20 June 10 13:21 BST (UK) »
Thanks Tom
What do you think "caravan" means. Would it be some kind of horse drawn vehicle ?
"Conveyance of prisoners" certainly seems to indicate that they were in some kind of vehicle. It seems that there might have been quite a few of them in it. Some kind of big enclosed cart ? I wonder if anyone has ever seen a sketch of something like that.
On the other hand, I wonder if anyone has seen a sketch of prisoners walking a highway linked together like a chain gang ?
Regards Ken
What do you think "caravan" means. Would it be some kind of horse drawn vehicle ?
"Conveyance of prisoners" certainly seems to indicate that they were in some kind of vehicle. It seems that there might have been quite a few of them in it. Some kind of big enclosed cart ? I wonder if anyone has ever seen a sketch of something like that.
On the other hand, I wonder if anyone has seen a sketch of prisoners walking a highway linked together like a chain gang ?
Regards Ken
7
Hampshire & Isle of Wight / Re: convicts walking
« on: Sunday 20 June 10 13:16 BST (UK) »
Thanks Fred. So would you think the convicts might have walked perhaps 40 miles ?
Eustace
Eustace
8
Hampshire & Isle of Wight / convicts walking
« on: Thursday 17 June 10 03:03 BST (UK) »
A convict ancestor of mine was sentenced in London in December 1827 and imprisoned at Newgate. In January 1828 he was imprisoned on the hulk "York" at Portsmouth. He was taken off the hulk in November 1828. He was transported to Australia on a convict ship departing London in January 1829.
How were convicts moved between cities in those days ? Did they walk in a chain gang ?
Can anyone suggest where my convict was in the two months between leaving the hulk and the ship sailing to Australia ?
Eustace
How were convicts moved between cities in those days ? Did they walk in a chain gang ?
Can anyone suggest where my convict was in the two months between leaving the hulk and the ship sailing to Australia ?
Eustace
9
Hampshire & Isle of Wight / Re: Portsmouth Prison
« on: Monday 07 June 10 05:46 BST (UK) »
Hi Spendlove
Thanks for the quick reply.
Yes my convict spent a year on the hulk "York", together with 600 other prisoners. It seems they all had a miserable time. I suppose that, like the prisoners on hulks in the Thames and Medway, they were taken ashore each day to work on the port - possibly on the fort in the case of Portsmouth.
My question is really about how prisoners were transferred from a hulk at Portsmouth to a sea going convict ship.
Were they taken ashore several days earlier and waited at an onshore prison until the ship arrived ? Or were they, perhaps, taken by boat to London and loaded on the ship there ?
Regards
Ken
Thanks for the quick reply.
Yes my convict spent a year on the hulk "York", together with 600 other prisoners. It seems they all had a miserable time. I suppose that, like the prisoners on hulks in the Thames and Medway, they were taken ashore each day to work on the port - possibly on the fort in the case of Portsmouth.
My question is really about how prisoners were transferred from a hulk at Portsmouth to a sea going convict ship.
Were they taken ashore several days earlier and waited at an onshore prison until the ship arrived ? Or were they, perhaps, taken by boat to London and loaded on the ship there ?
Regards
Ken
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