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Messages - wibsey1

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1
Kent / Re: Maria Frances Langley b. Woolwich
« on: Wednesday 05 April 17 05:49 BST (UK)  »
Well I got the will of John Ashendon from the National Archives, it says he is from (or at least living in)  Essex and it does refer to his daughter Mary Maria wife of Richard Marchant, unless there was more than one Mary Maria Marchant around at the time, this is fairly good proof and the link I was looking.
for. before accepting Mary Ashenden as his spouse

Also included with the papers sent, was the will of Hannah Marchant, widow of Richard Robert ? (I can't read the surname).


2
Kent / Re: Maria Frances Langley b. Woolwich
« on: Saturday 01 April 17 02:43 BST (UK)  »
Ordered it from TNA but they sent me the wrong one, awaiting a reply from them.
As far as I know, NZ libraries don't supply access to Ancestry.

3
Kent / Re: Maria Frances Langley b. Woolwich
« on: Friday 31 March 17 01:30 BST (UK)  »
amondg I am well aware of that in general the age shown on the census is the earliest of the five year range, however I was interested in the information you supplied concerning the will of John Ashenden proven 11 October 1852, I have not seen this document previously and no one has raised it as proof of their position, this may well be the PROOF that the Mary wife of Richard Marchant was Mary Ashenden, but I would like to read the document itself before I commit myself to accepting it.

Clive

4
Kent / Re: Maria Frances Langley b. Woolwich
« on: Thursday 30 March 17 04:20 BST (UK)  »
Sorry Trish, can't accept that - 1841 census says Mary, wife of Richard Marchant was 35 at that time, so born in 1806, if you are correct, that Richard's marriage took place in 1819, then she would be aged only 13 at the time of her marriage, requiring consent of her parents, I can't see that being the case. particularly as what you have supplied does not show that this was the case.

This is also why I was reluctant to go with the marriage to Mary Harrison in 1813 as this would have made her only 7.

If you check the 1841 census on FindMyPast you will see that John Longhurst IS at the same address, and shown as born in Kent - I think we must agree to differ on this.

5
Kent / Re: Maria Frances Langley b. Woolwich
« on: Wednesday 29 March 17 03:04 BST (UK)  »
Trish, Family Search shows John Longhurst at same address as Richard Marchant in 1841 census (same piece number so in same return), in fact identical information to what I found in FindMyPast.

I have looked in Ancestry, as I don't have any credits with them, I cannot access an image of the actual census.

Family Search has the marriage of Richard & Mary as 4/1/1818 not 1813. In fact this is the only marriage involving Richard Marchant and Mary I have been able to locate

6
Kent / Re: Maria Frances Langley b. Woolwich
« on: Tuesday 28 March 17 03:56 BST (UK)  »
Trish

I have 1841 census from FindMyPast, household living in Charlton Village, Lewisham,, Kent.
The family is:
Richard Marchant age 50 born 1791 in Kent
Mary Marchant     age 35 born 1806 in Kent
Maria Marchant    age 15 born 1826 in Kent
William Marchant age 13 born 1828 in Kent
Thomas Marchant age 10 born 1831 in Kent
Arthur Marchant  age   5 born 1836 in Kent
John Longhurst    age 50 born 1791 in Kent

In the 1841 census, none of the household member's occupation was collected  so there was nothing there to say what his occupation was at that time. hence my query of him being described as a gardener.

I have 1851 census from Family Search
household living in Charlton Village, Lewisham,, Kent.
The family is:
Richard Marchant age 68 shown as born in Brighton in Sussex(it says Brightling but there is not now nor ever was such a place)  in 1783 with the occupation of Victualer Master Licenced Victualler employing one.
Mary Marchant     age 48 shown as born in Northiam, Sussex in 1803
Arthur Marchant  age 14 shown as born in Charlton, Kent in 1837

Richard's will which describes him as being of the Anchor & Hope Inn in Carlton, and mentions the following children:
Mary Maria Langley, wife of Edward Langley, William Marchant, Thomas Marchant and Arthur James Marchant. - Probate was granted 17/2/1854 in Charlton, Lewisham. Kent

These are obviously the same family despite the inconsistencies and the fact that the 1841 doesn't give Richard's occupation. but that wouldn't help because he wasn't the landlord of the Anchor & Hope in Lewisham until about 1847.

I have found records which show that Mary was the landlord of the Hope and Anchor Inn from 1855 -1858, so she obviously took over after Richard's death.

I have been looking for a marriage for Richard and Mary, and the most likely one I have found is to Mary Harrison at St Bede, Fleet Street, London on 1/1/1818

Clive


7
Kent / Re: Maria Frances Langley b. Woolwich
« on: Sunday 26 March 17 00:19 GMT (UK)  »
But Trish, the 1851 Census has him born in Kent in 1791 and the 1841 census has him born in Brighton (Sussex) in 1783, quite apart from the distance between the two locations, there is also 8 years difference in age.

Charlton (Kent) is where the children were born and the the spelling of the surname in the 1841 census is not even phonetically close nor could it be accounted for by a dialect differential. the age of Richard's wife is also different, in the 1841 census, mary was born in 1806 whereas in the 1851 census she was born in 1803. and there is also a year difference between the births of each family's son, Arthur.

As Richard was a licenced victualler in the 1851 census (i.e. a landlord) he would have been at least to some extent able to read and write but that would hardly hold true for someone employed as a gardener in 1841.

I'm still not convinced that the family you have identified in the 1841 census is the same as that in the 1851 census.

8
Kent / Re: Maria Frances Langley b. Woolwich
« on: Friday 24 March 17 22:23 GMT (UK)  »
No Christine, I don't think this is the one - I think Mary's parents were from Sussex and Richard born abt 1791 in Brighton, if this is correct, he was a pub owner not a gardener, an entirely different strata of society.

I don't think the Richard Marchant = Mary Ashenden is the correct family.

9
Kent / Re: Maria Frances Langley b. Woolwich
« on: Friday 24 March 17 01:15 GMT (UK)  »
Thanks Trish

I had some of this info but wasn't sure about it.

The 1851 census has Richard born in 1783 in Brighton, Sussex, but the 1861 one has him born in Kent in 1791.

Lewisham is just south of the Thames whereas Brighton is on the South Coast, quite a distance in those days and the 8 years difference also makes me wonder if these are not two different families.

I have  Mary marrying Edward Langley on 8/6/1847 in St Mary, Whitechapel, and the marriage certificate has her father as Richard Marchant, so I can be certain of this.

Her death certificate says she was 45 at the time of her death on 21 March 1870 so she was born about 1824/5.

There is another Richard Marchant in the 1841 census in Charlton Village, Lewisham, Kent born in 1791, which is the family you found in the 1861 census with his wife, Mary born in 1801 and the children Maria, William, Thomas and Arthur, and a man called John Longhurst who is the same age as Richard.

I did consider Mary Ashenden as Richard's wife, but I couldn't locate anything to verify it so until I can, all I can be certain of is that Richard's wife is called Mary.

It could well be that John Longhurst is Mary's brother which would make her maiden name Longhurst, but unfortunately the earlier censuses don't give relationship to head of the house.

I wouldn't just accept what someone has included in their tree as proof of anything unless they have also stated the source of that information, be it certificate post Oct 1837 or parish registers before then. which I can verify myself.

 Best wishes.

Clive

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