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Messages - ZiggyZipgun

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1
Donegal / Re: Hart family of Magherashanvalley, Donaghmore, Co. Donegal
« on: Thursday 15 September 11 13:11 BST (UK)  »
That would be a quite a twist, but anything is possible.  One of Samuel's sons, Solomon, is listed on the 1880 census record as being born in Scotland, and it also says his mother and father were born in Scotland; prior to 1880, every census said he was born in Ireland.  In 1890, the Michigan death index again says he was born in Scotland.  I've wondered how that ended up on those two records, since he did not live far from two of his older brothers, and Solomon's wife outlived him by 49 years; up until she died in 1939, she was still telling stories about the indian village near the farm where her family settled in Michigan.  I figured he might have claimed Scotland as his birthplace if his family never really thought of themselves as Irish. 

Here's the article from 1925.  The president of the committee, William H. Hart, has a daughter that's alive and well, who is 96 years old and has a lot of odd stories from her uncle and her grandmother, pertaining to her great-grandfather, James Hart, and his wife, Jane Kirk (not "Kerk"). 

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Donegal / Re: Hart family of Magherashanvalley, Donaghmore, Co. Donegal
« on: Wednesday 14 September 11 14:29 BST (UK)  »
I see a Thomas Hart listed in the town of Ballibogan on the 1665 Hearth Money Roll; anyone happen to know how far Ballibogan is from Castlefinn or Magherashanvalley, and is there any other mention of Harts in Ballibogan?  There is a Joseph Hart, b.1795, that turns up on the New York census living with Samuel's son, Joseph, which is somewhat puzzling, since there were a lot of wealthy Harts in and around that area, but none of them are related to us. 

Joe, you've got a real knack for finding relevant information.  Where did you find the 1777 marriage record for Thomas?  I guess I'm just curious about your usual search methods, since I'm across the pond, and the only way I find out about a good public records site is if it's one that does a lot of advertising - and that typically limits it to the profit-driven, shamrock-and-leprechaun sites. 

The birth/baptism records for Sam/Samuel don't match up with any of my 4th-great-grandfather's children, but I may have seen another reference to Joseph, father of Margaret and Elizabeth: a ship ironically named Dispatch sank in 1828 while en route to Quebec - where nearly all steamers stopped before arriving in New York - and the Strabane Morning Post published the names of the survivors, including a Joseph Hart and his wife Mary, their son Thomas, and their daughters, Margaret and Eliza; the lost two sons, whose names were not given.  It seems the survivors were then put on the HMS Tyne, but I haven't yet found the passenger list for that. 

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~tyrone/emigration/brig-dispatch.html

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Donegal / Re: Hart family of Magherashanvalley, Donaghmore, Co. Donegal
« on: Tuesday 13 September 11 22:30 BST (UK)  »
I have seen both of those records, just last week - which is slow progress considering I found Samuel's marriage record two years ago.  The "F. Hart" is a mystery to me, since that doesn't ring any bells, but I don't know if that could be a transcription error since it was taken from a newspaper (must've been a slow week in the news) and they appear three times.  I also don't understand why the specify that "F. Hart" was from Magherashanvalley, and not the others...are they implying that the others are also from there, or that they're not? 

Also, a James Hart appears in Castlefinn on the Griffith's 1857 Valuation, years after my family had settled in New York; I'd love to find descendants of his. 

4
Donegal / Re: Hart family of Magherashanvalley, Donaghmore, Co. Donegal
« on: Tuesday 13 September 11 12:41 BST (UK)  »
Rathmore, which page is he mentioned on?

I've never found anywhere to search online for documents that survived the Four Courts bombing, but the LDS' FamilySearch site states that: "Many records were destroyed but not as much as commonly thought.  Most probate documents were lost but these losses can be worked around. Only some church records were burned.  Many were still with the local church and not at the Four Courts building at the time of the fire."  This gives me enough of a glimmer of hope to make an effort to find it, but I don't know where to begin.

About the Civil Ejectments:  The Landlord had a choice of proceedures when he wanted to eject a tenant: if he wished to eject for non-payment, the tenant was served with a process stating the amount of rent and costs due; if he wanted to get rid of a tenant who was not in arrears, he had to give six months notice to quit, followed by a process for overholding. Both processes summoned the tenant to appear in court to show why he had not paid his rent, or given up the holding. The difference between them however, was important:  the ejectment for non-payment could be stopped by the tenant paying his arrears and costs; the ejectment for overholding could be stopped only if the landlord gave up the case or the tenant got out.
(Source: Landlords and tenants in mid-Victorian Ireland, by William Edward Vaughan)
Naturally, I'd like to think that my ancestors weren't kicked out for not paying their rent, but since they're not listed earlier for non-payment or a specific amount due, I'm further led to believe that they weren't in arrears.  This would particularly be a kick in the pants for them if they'd previously left Scotland for the same reason, during the Highland Clearances - but I'll have to find some more documents before I can jump to either conclusion.  

5
Donegal / Re: Hart family of Magherashanvalley, Donaghmore, Co. Donegal
« on: Monday 12 September 11 22:15 BST (UK)  »
I'm surprised to think that they "may have been of some means" - in the Civil Ejectments record, James is listed twice in 1830, and Samuel is listed once in 1832 - both in Magherashanvally, and both for "overholding" which was apparently the way to evict people for no real reason at all.  The landlord in each case was James Boyle Delap. 

The farm in Michigan that Samuel's son James built is still in our family, and owned by a 3rd-cousin of mine, who told me that he'd heard that James' wife was ashamed of their farm, and didn't want her relatives in Donegal to come visit - but they may have been referring to their homestead in Western New York, where they lived immediately after arriving in America. 

What do you think the chances are of finding some record of the 1815 will that was mentioned in the 1907 Harts of Donegal book? 

6
Donegal / Re: Hart family of Magherashanvalley, Donaghmore, Co. Donegal
« on: Monday 12 September 11 21:50 BST (UK)  »
Oh, that explains it - I'm sure it was one of my posts, as I have yet to encounter anyone else that ever traced their Harts back as far as Samuel, and it was only after I teamed up with my aunt and my cousin that we were able to piece that much together.  I believe I've looked around on the PRONI site before, but was never able to find anything until you came along.  I'm surprised to not find any mention of the surname Harrow or Marrow...I figured that even with a transcription error, one or the other would be correct. 

Now, I tried posting the image of this, but the 500KB attachment limit prevented that, so here it is.  A distant cousin of mine was kind enough to share this poem that was passed down through the descendants of Samuel's son, Moses - who is the only one of Samuel's children not mentioned here, which we suspect was Moses' choice when he made copies of it from the original in 1856.  It was written by a school teacher named McKinney that was a friend of the family.

LINES COMPOSED OF THE ANCIENT PROPRIETORS OF SHANVALLEY NOW PREPARING FOR AMERICA.
By MCKINNEY

Shanvalley once the pride of all these parts,
And flourish’d long beneath the Race of Harts
As if in sorrow at their going away,
Now clouded seems, and falling to decay.

The fertile fields and meads so gay so green,
Where winter’s withered face could scarce be seen,
A different aspect here of late assumes
All of their verdant beauties clad in gloom.

Here oft the needy and the neighboring poor
Found sure relief and still an open door;
The stranger too benighted sought the road,
To Mr. Hart’s of Shanvalley’s abode.

But now no more the sprightly dance or songs,
In blameless mirth, goes round the cheerful throng;
No more at setting sun or rising moon,
We hear the viol’s brisk enlivening tune.

You charming fair still with abundance blest,
Of beauty, grace, and modesty possess;
Entitled to unclaimed respect beside,
And always free from vanity and pride.

Farewell, be happy in a foreign land;
Eliza fair and noble Mary Ann.
Seven blooming youths of fair unblemished fame,
Recorded here, each by his proper name.

The first is Thomas, sober, wise and grave,
In person, graceful, and in conduct, brave.
Well skilled in that most useful of all arts,
To mortals, most essential in all parts.

The second, James, the noblest of our youth,
Fames for true valour, dignity and truth;
A faultless form above the middle size,
A face like Phebus beaming in our eyes,
Where Mars and Venus both united shine,
To render him complete in every line.

Two absentees already have crost o’er,
And point the way to freedom’s native shore;
Samuel and Joseph, sacred names we find
That bode success to those here left behind.

Solly and William, comely, fair and young,
The last that from a worthy mother sprung;
In them already independence glows
And their success through life hereafter shows.

Shalt thou Miss Charlotte here forgotten be
Seeing removed from those but one degree;
Delightful pratter innocence so sweet,
Might render short the passage o’er the deep.

Now to you all a long last adieu;
And if the good be happy so will you.


I did find one reference to a David McKinney that was mentioned in the 1826 school census, but I haven't found any other records that might pinpoint who wrote the poem. 

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Donegal / Re: Hart family of Magherashanvalley, Donaghmore, Co. Donegal
« on: Monday 12 September 11 19:09 BST (UK)  »
Let's step back a minute...where are you seeing Thomas (b.1811) mentioned?  Because that is indeed his eldest son, but I don't know where you'd see that other than the 1834 passenger list, or the subsequent U.S. census records. 

Still, thanks for that very helpful bit of information!

8
Donegal / Re: Hart family of Magherashanvalley, Donaghmore, Co. Donegal
« on: Monday 12 September 11 16:10 BST (UK)  »
That is the correct marriage record, though his wife's name is later spelled Marrow on their youngest son's 1911 New York death certificate.  There is a fairly large book from 1907 called The Family History of the Harts of Donegal, but there is apparently no relation, since they are descendants of a British officer that was assigned to Donegal - and they don't mention any Harts from Magherashanvalley in the book.  The Michigan branch of the family formed a reunion committee in 1925, and were trying to contact their cousins that had remained in New York; they announced the election of reunion officials in the local paper, and mentioned that they traced the family back to Scotland, and that it moved to Ireland in 1785, and left for America after two generations - this is the only mention of Scotland we've found, and even though my grandfather attended a lot of those reunions in the 1920s and '30s, we have yet to find any surviving documents from that committee. 

9
Antrim / Re: Request lookup in Northern Ireland.
« on: Monday 12 September 11 14:41 BST (UK)  »
My great-great-great-grandmother, Jane Kirk, was the daughter of William Kirk and Anne Morrow of Mullinboys, Inver Parish, Co. Donegal.  On the 1796 Flax Census, there are three Kirks listed in Mullinboys - a William, a James, and a Daniel - and other Kirks listed in nearby towns.  I've found William and Anne's marriage record from 1822, and Jane's birth/baptism record from 1825, along with a birth/baptism record for their son, Thomas Kirk, born in 1823.  They also had a son named William, who's daughter Annie married a Robert Dowse of Ranelagh, Dublin.  I haven't spent much time researching the family, but I was recently told that my great-great-great-grandfather, James Hart, had already left Ireland to settle in New York, but came back a few years later to marry an older sister of Jane's, who he then found out had married someone else - so he married Jane, who was only 15 at the time.  They came to New York on the RMS Britannia in 1842, while Jane was seven months pregnant. 

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