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Messages - Illawarrian

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1
Australia / Re: John WARD - Wellington NSW
« on: Wednesday 06 November 19 02:05 GMT (UK)  »
I'm not related either so really, I don't much care either way. But someone said they were going to have a look at the probate packet and that will probably sort it out either way. I don't want to have any further discussion until the probate packet for John Ward died aged 36 has been checked. I'm not going to dig him up and do a DNA test.

I am not related to the family.  I am not drawing any conclusion as to the status of the couple who married in 1855.  But you have not shown that the Judith Ward who married in 1855 to William McKenna had been the widow of the chap (John WARD) who died aged 36 in 1853.   

I am absolutely sure that the NSW BDM does not have, nor has it ever claimed to have, every bdm record for every bdm event in NSW, particularly for the pre civil registration period.   

How sure are you that the only choices anyone has in NSW would be those you have typed up?

JM
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2
Australia / Re: John WARD - Wellington NSW
« on: Wednesday 06 November 19 01:36 GMT (UK)  »
I just had a look and I can't find any - maybe someone could find some of these notices for me?

Quote from: Jamjar on Wednesday 06 November 19 01:20 GMT (UK)
I have seen entries from Trove where a woman has stated something to the effect that if their husband doesn’t contact them within 3 months, they intend to remarry.

They did do so and lived happily ever after, free from prosecution for bigamy.

Jamjar

3
Australia / John Ward
« on: Wednesday 06 November 19 01:25 GMT (UK)  »
I explained in my previous post. Instead of explaining again, why don't you give me all the reasons why you think it isn't him. It can't be him because....??? A search of Trove newspapers from 1840 to 1860 shows that the word 'widow' in Australia in those days always meant a woman whose husband had died. I can't find a single article where 'widow' meant a woman separated from her husband and I stand by my statement that it would be illegal for Judith to remarry if John Ward were alive. I also do not believe she lied in order to remarry. It was only a little over 2 years between the birth of James Ward and the remarriage of his mother. What would Judith do if John Ward reappeared to visit his children after she told everyone he was dead! Imagine the scandal. She wouldn't do that. The marriage wasn't secret or shameful. There was a notice in the newspaper. Since John Ward died between 1851 and 1855, these are the choices you have in N.S.W.: John Ward died 1854 infant; John W. Ward died 1855 4 months; John Ward died 1853 age 59; or John Ward died 1853 aged 36. Which one do you think it is? Or, if this whole scenario is too disturbing, you can just believe whatever you like. No-one can make you change your mind. I'm not trying to force you to change your mind. You're free to believe whatever. If you prefer to think he disappeared into the sunset, no worries.

4
Australia / Re: John WARD - Wellington NSW
« on: Wednesday 06 November 19 00:15 GMT (UK)  »
It doesn't matter how broad his interpretation of the word 'widow' was, if John Ward wasn't dead, Judith wasn't free to remarry, and all three involved could go to prison. The first prosecution for bigamy occurred in N.S.W. in 1818 and you'll find many cases on Trove. These three weren't dishonest people, and there's no way they would have broken the law that way.

5
Australia / Probate Packet
« on: Monday 04 November 19 06:58 GMT (UK)  »
I hope it's the younger John Ward then. There was an older one, aged 59 I think, who also died in that year in Sydney. The John Ward I'm talking about died on 4th October aged 36, and his death certificate is mistakenly listed under the surname Maxwell on BD&M. I'll include the article for those who don't know how to search Trove.

6
Australia / Death of John Ward alias Maxwell
« on: Monday 04 November 19 02:56 GMT (UK)  »
James Ward b. 1852 was the last of the children of John Ward and Judith Reece. In 1856, Judith remarried William McKenna. The marriage certificate says Judith was a WIDOW. The marriage celebrant would have to be absolutely sure that she was, and in a small town like Wellington, everyone would have known if she wasn't telling the truth.
So, between 1852 and 1856, a period of 4 years, JOHN WARD DIED. He didn't disappear.
A person who is missing in N.S.W. cannot be presumed dead and a death certificate issued after only 3 or 4 years. It takes many more years than that. So, it makes sense that Judith was in possession of a death certificate.
The newspaper article regarding the death of John Ward states that he was John Ward ALIAS MAXWELL. (Men who left their wives usually used another name because desertion was a criminal offence).
So, firstly, he has the SAME NAME as John Ward. John Ward your ancestor - John Ward who died in Sydney in 1853.
His friend George Young stated that this man was 36 years old. So, a second fact that ties in, he was the RIGHT AGE. Same name, same age!
Another friend, Thomas Clewley, stated at the inquest that he had LEFT HIS WIFE. This fact fits. She had no more children to him after 1852.
John Ward died of intemperance and this FITS THE SITUATION whereby his wife did not complain to police of his desertion - there is nothing in police gazettes saying his wife, or police, were looking for him. She did not want him to come back, or she would have reported it to police.
The death certificate of this JOHN WARD we are speaking of above, appears on N.S.W. BD&M as JOHN MAXWELL, because that was one of the names John Ward was using, to avoid being found.
However in the legal notice published, seeking a wife or relatives, he is named as JOHN WARD, as it must have been decided that was his real name.
So, the reason none of John Ward's descendants have been able to find his death certificate, is that the name has been mistakenly recorded as John Maxwell.


7
Australia / Death of John Ward alias Maxwell
« on: Monday 04 November 19 02:25 GMT (UK)  »
To search old newspapers, go here.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/search?adv=y
Put in phrase John Ward
Year 1853.
You will find all the newspaper articles including the fact he was using the alias Maxwell and had left his wife.

8
Australia / Re: John WARD - Wellington NSW
« on: Monday 04 November 19 02:19 GMT (UK)  »
https://familyhistory.bdm.nsw.gov.au/lifelink/familyhistory/search/result?12
I don't know if that will even work, I think you have to do your own search on NSW BD&M.
John Maxwell aged 36. 910/1853 V1853910 119
Trove
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/114835997?searchTerm=maxwell%20AND%20%22john%20ward%22&searchLimits=exactPhrase=john+ward+|||anyWords|||notWords|||requestHandler|||dateFrom=1853-01-01|||dateTo=1853-12-31|||l-advstate=New+South+Wales|||sortby
Best to do your own search for John Ward, 1853. He was mistakenly registered as John Maxwell.

9
Australia / John Ward, Montefiore, Wellington
« on: Monday 04 November 19 01:19 GMT (UK)  »
I am not a relative but I found this story interesting. Now that we have newspapers online it's a whole new ball game. On 4th October 1853 the body of John Ward was found dead at the house of George Young, Clarence Street, Sydney, near the Crispin Arms hotel. The coroner found he died of intemperance. The newspaper article is easy to find on Trove. His friend said he had a wife and had left her. If he was a drinker she may have thrown him out, which would explain why she didn't send the police to look for him. She must have had independent means of support. As John Ward was also using the name John Maxwell the coroner had to decide which name to register the death under. John Maxwell was the one, and you can find the certificate on NSW BD&M. The John Ward mentioned below who lost a horse or something, was not the same one, but probably a relative, as the John Ward we're talking about was long dead. On 21st October 1853 a Supreme Court notice was placed in the newspaper, asking for any relatives, or a wife, of John Ward, to come forward, as he possessed some assets to be distributed. By then it had somehow been established that the correct name was John Ward, not John Maxwell. If any relatives decide to purchase the death certificate of "John Maxwell" (John Ward) I would love to see a copy. Louise

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