Show Posts

This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.


Messages - syzygy

Pages: [1] 2
1
The Common Room / Re: Heir Hunters
« on: Thursday 25 July 13 19:31 BST (UK)  »
I have been helping trading standards with this case, and we are very pleased with the result.
 
Well done it shows that it was worth the years of fight, I just hope that Mr * has the money to pay you our properly as he should of in the first place.
Well done

(Moderators the name is mentioned in the press release, so I am not just naming random people)

Thanks for any help you provided, Neil.

As for the money.... We're waiting on the sentencing of Beneficiaries Ltd and will take it from there. My confidence is low, there's been plenty of time for it to 'disappear'.

2
The Common Room / Re: Heir Hunters
« on: Tuesday 23 July 13 18:39 BST (UK)  »
Some of this info is not correct, especially the bit about our fees, please don't just quote numbers when you don't know the facts, giving out miss-information is worse than not giving out any information. 

I am happy to talk to anyone about potential work just contact me through the Fraser and Fraser web page, drop me a message on here, or even use the email address tv AT lostkin.co.uk

there is also information about fees on the webpage. Most heir hunters will work using several different charging structures including by the hour or fixed fee. I don't know of any firm who would try to charge 40% for instructed work in the UK. I would have thought the fee using a % method would be nearer 10-15% and would only be on those unknown heirs, not heirs that are already known about, and never to the administrator.

It is always best to use a firm of "Probate Researchers" they aren't just researchers but also people who do this every day and know the law. There are very few firms who can get the other things that can help with administration, such as asset searching, will searching and insurance. It is advisable to take out "missing will insurance" and " Missing Beneficiary Indemnity" on most cases when there is no will or a will cant be found, and only professional firms can get this.
Neil Fraser

Hi Neil. Some time ago we spoke on the phone about a certain company in Edinburgh, which did charge 40%. Actually turned out to be a lot more than that..., so we went to Trading Standards about them.

http://www.westberks.gov.uk/index.aspx?articleid=27216

A bittersweet victory though

3
The Lighter Side / Re: Bad press for heir hunters
« on: Tuesday 16 February 10 11:40 GMT (UK)  »
Please remember when quoting the 40% fee this is only charged on cases that come from the US and then only really on some New York cases. I have never seen a 40% fee on a domestic English estate, ( I have however heard of other firms charging by the hour using more than half of the estate)

The reason that a New York case has higher fees is because who has to share that fee. The Heir Hunter in England (Europe) will be luck if he gets 2/5 of that fee so in reality a fee of between 15% and 20%.



I noticed you said 'English'. Do you only deal with estates in England?

4
The Lighter Side / Re: Bad press for heir hunters
« on: Tuesday 16 February 10 10:55 GMT (UK)  »

I applaud Neil Fraser's frankness on this subject, and I hope that one day there may be more regulation so that the reputation of the more established  companies are not tarnished by the actions of a few cowboy companies.



Me too, When people are approached by heir hunters it is very likely they have never been in the situation before. They have no life experience on how to handle themselves. It's not like employing a builder where you will know what they do or can ask a friend and have a good idea about what you are going into (Yes, I know there are loads of 'cowboys' there too).

The information here given is invaluable should they come knocking.

5
The Lighter Side / Re: Bad press for heir hunters
« on: Tuesday 16 February 10 10:50 GMT (UK)  »
Just in the last 5 years, our agreements have been to court 4 times (not because some one is trying to get out of or to challenge them), one of those courts it the highest in the land, The House of Lords. The agreement has also been seen by several lawyers, including a QC how was asked to give us a legal opinion on the existing agreement, our practice and any possible improvements.
As part of our ISO requirements we have a fully documented procedure, that is followed in all cases. The contract is for the supply of information, and does not have any grounds for a firm to show its expenses or costs. Obviously when billing on a time spent bases then a full brake down is required.

To make matters clear, the current contract used by most firms is 1 page of single sided  A4, written in plain English, there is no small print or hidden clauses F&F use a font size of 12 or 13. I don't think the agreement could be any clearer. We suggest that if an heir want they should take independent legal advice. when a contract is signed on the spot, a second cancellation form is signed by F&F and left with the heir this is in the same font size as the agreement (by law). for every document signed or taken away a carbon copy is also left.

I am not trying to say that there is no room for improvement in the way we work but the you would be hard pushed to come in a pick huge holes in our operation or to challenge the legality of an agreement.



I'm not suggesting F&F are doing anything illegal. I am talking across the whole industry.

I'm thinking more when someone has signed up to an agreement, with a quite large commission. At the time they do not know how much the may inherit, but may be thinking, as I'm sure many do, that say 60% of something is better than nothing. At a later date they find out the estate is quite large. OK 60% of a large settlement is even better than 60% of nothing, but then realise the heir hunter fee which could easily be 6 figures if, for example, the estate involved selling a house.

At this point is is well past the cooling of period, Had the beneficiary  known of the potential size of the fee they would liely have negotiated, the least they would expect a clear breakdown of why the fee is so high.

In many cases the heir hunter will know the size of the estate before asking people to sign agreements. Their research in tracking down the beneficiaries may show property for example, if they have been appointed by a solicitor or if the deceased is living in Scotland where estate values are still published. These are the agreements I would be concerned about, if not illegal, certainly mis-balanced.

6
The Lighter Side / Re: Bad press for heir hunters
« on: Tuesday 16 February 10 09:46 GMT (UK)  »
Don't you think that heir hunters are right to withhold the information that may have cost them a lot of money to find ?



When it comes to situations when they know how much they will gain from an agreement whilst the other party is signing blindly I not sure that is right.

I appreciate that work has been done and a fair price should be paid (Of course heir hunters need to turn a profit, else we wouldn't have any!). My concern is over the high percentage commission on larger estates, an area open to abuse, and the area the tabloids are focussing on.

Do the heir hunter firms itemise their 'work' to the beneficiaries after the event? I would imagine any expenses have to be fully accounted (receipts etc.), but what about the general day to day work?

The number of cases where the value of the estate is known is pretty small, and in those cases most of the major heir hunting firms offer a choice of payment methods from % to time-spent.

So, like any other industry, there are always going to be 'Cowboys', 'Rogue Traders' etc. As I mentioned earlier it is likely to be these smaller companies causing the problems, going for the big hit!


7
The Lighter Side / Re: Bad press for heir hunters
« on: Tuesday 16 February 10 09:23 GMT (UK)  »
Don't you think that heir hunters are right to withhold the information that may have cost them a lot of money to find ?



When it comes to situations when they know how much they will gain from an agreement whilst the other party is signing blindly I not sure that is right.

I appreciate that work has been done and a fair price should be paid (Of course heir hunters need to turn a profit, else we wouldn't have any!). My concern is over the high percentage commission on larger estates, an area open to abuse, and the area the tabloids are focussing on.

Do the heir hunter firms itemise their 'work' to the beneficiaries after the event? I would imagine any expenses have to be fully accounted (receipts etc.), but what about the general day to day work?

8
The Lighter Side / Re: Bad press for heir hunters
« on: Monday 15 February 10 20:05 GMT (UK)  »
"There may be some mileage in challenging the legality of the agreement though"

trust me a firm of our size would not have allowed the BBC to film us if our contract was not legal!

There is a lot of false information flying around that what we do is in some way wrong and out contracts are not legal, if that was the case do you not think that we would have made them legal by now, we have only been doing this since 1923. Please don't believe all you read in the paper or on line as true. There is one firm that has been trying to control the market who only charge by the hour they have done a big campaign to say that the industry needs regulation, I agree it should be regulated. However in a lot of areas it is already regulated, F&F is regulated by ISO 9001 , ISO 27001, Data Protection ICO, AGRA, APG, Lexcel, FSO, and I am sure several others; our contracts are also regulated by the Trade Descriptions act, Consumer Protection (Distance Selling) Regulations and Cancellation of Contracts Made in a Consumer's Home or Place of Work etc Regulations.

F&F have been open regulation. I think there is a bigger issue to a firm that is not open to where research is conducted and how it is charged for than there is ever about  agreements being legal.

I firmly believe that a % agreement is the fairest way to charge rather than an unregulated hourly charge when work is done on the cheap in India and charged as if it is done in the UK.




Have any agreements been challenged?

My concerned is for people who sign agreements where the other party is withholding information, hardly a 'fair' contractual situation.

9
The Lighter Side / Re: Bad press for heir hunters
« on: Monday 15 February 10 19:30 GMT (UK)  »

As for the lady complaining about the size of the commission, she has the choice of making the claim herself, and if she's got a beef she should have tried to negotiate herself a better deal.




Well, She would have to know who's died. Also renegotiation is tricky after signing the agreement. There may be some mileage in challenging the legality of the agreement though.

Pages: [1] 2