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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Topic started by: Sgt_Tollers on Sunday 23 October 05 22:52 BST (UK)

Title: Scottish Family Names
Post by: Sgt_Tollers on Sunday 23 October 05 22:52 BST (UK)
Hello everyone,

I don't know if anyone else out there knows the following, but I was recently given a book on family history for my birthday, and I found the below quote very interesting:

"Before the 20th century, the Scots had a fairly standard pattern of naming children, which may give clues to the names of grandparents:

Eldest son was named after the paternal grandfather

2nd son was named after the maternal grandfather

3rd son was named after the father

Eldest daughter was named after the maternal grandmother

2nd daughter was named after the paternal grandmother

3rd daughter was named after the mother

It was also quite common to create girls' names by adding a or ina to a man's name, e.g. Jacoba, Jamesina, which in some cases seems to have been done when there weren't enough sons in the family to commemorate the male relatives"

I don't know if this is of any use to anyone, but thought that I'd put it just in case :).

Best wishes,
Sgt Tollers
Title: Re: Scottish Family Names
Post by: Crowhunt on Wednesday 26 October 05 02:50 BST (UK)
Yes! I was aware and it did come in very handy with one of my families! I wish ALL my families did it!
I also wish that my families used more "family names" as middle names. That was also very helpful in identifying a family as part of my line.
Title: Re: Scottish Family Names
Post by: Douglas P on Saturday 29 October 05 23:37 BST (UK)
Hi girls,

I recently came across the following page tucked away on the internet. It lists the typical naming pattern for the first ten sons & first ten daughters:

http://www.halmyre.abel.co.uk/Family/naming.htm

It still surprises me how many children some people had in those days. My grandmother was one of 13. Another ancestor didn't marry until he was 35 and still had 9 children.

I've found middle names can be useful to trace other records for a person but I haven't always found them helpful with predicting other family names for their ancestry. I have two ancestors that I'm told acquired their middle names from the Ministers they were baptised by.

Douglas.
Title: Re: Scottish Family Names
Post by: pollywolly on Monday 07 November 05 09:30 GMT (UK)
really interesting.  i have family members called hughina, robina and wilma all of which come from the male side of there family and interesting to know its usually because the parents ran out of sons to name so adapted the names for girls.
Title: Re: Scottish Family Names
Post by: Clare Fowler on Monday 07 November 05 12:38 GMT (UK)
Hi there,

Sometimes the -ina ending was just because families had picked a boy's name and didn't want to change it, or wanted to name the daughter after a male relative.  A more extreme version of this is just given the daughter a boy's name regardless. My grandmother's best friend while growing up was a girl called Gordon!   :D

Cheers,
Clare

Title: Re: Scottish Family Names
Post by: ibi on Saturday 17 December 05 19:21 GMT (UK)
If anyone can show me a family where the 4th to 14th names are as on that list, I'll happily eat my hat, or anyone else's for that matter!  ;D

It's very rare to come across any set pattern beyond the 3rd son and daughter.

The much more frequent pattern involves the 3rd son being named after the father, and 3rd daughter after the mother.

One quite frequent usage is 4th, 5th etc., sons after paternal and maternal uncles, sometimes starting with the eldest such; and similarly for 4th, 5th, etc., daughters.

http://www.halmyre.abel.co.uk/Family/naming.htm is correct in the sense that it's not unusual to find parents' grandparents' names and even g-grandparents' names being used, but not in any set order that I'm aware of.

In any case, given the relatively small pool of given names in use in the 19th century and earlier, the chances are that this would only lead to repeats!

ibi

Title: Re: Scottish Family Names
Post by: carol sea on Saturday 17 December 05 20:07 GMT (UK)
Things get even more confusing when parents sadly lost a child in infancy after registering them. Often they would call their next born child by the same name and given that in those days it was not that unusual for two babies to be born in the same year....nightmare time for the genealogist! Why do we do this???

Carol ???
Title: Re: Scottish Family Names
Post by: ibi on Saturday 17 December 05 20:35 GMT (UK)
Carol

Practice varied from family to family, and area to area.

In some families the name of a child who had died in infancy was never ever re-used, - bad luck to do so !!

While in other families, the name was re-used, - I've had experience of 4 children of the same name where it can be shown that the first three died in infancy as opposed to it being the not unknown case of the name being repeated in terms of the traditional Scottish naming pattern ............

ibi
Title: Re: Scottish Family Names
Post by: apanderson on Saturday 17 December 05 21:02 GMT (UK)
Hi all,

(Hopefully) I've attached a photo of a head stone which shows 2 x Johns and 2 x James's - it seems this family were determined to use these names as no sooner had one child died than they used it again.

The 'tradition' as ibi said, comes in handy now and again but isn't always the case.

On my wanderings in various graveyards and cemeteries I've come across a few women bearing the names of Stuart and Nicholas.

There have been a few more instances when I've had to do a double take as what I originally thought was a man had in fact been a woman. Offhand I can't remember what these were but when I find them, I'll add another post.

Anne
Title: Re: Scottish Family Names
Post by: carol sea on Tuesday 20 December 05 16:35 GMT (UK)
Hi Anne
Thanks for the photo.Seems to be a perfect example of what I was talking about.The second John would have been born the year that the first John died. Must say this seems to have happened more with my English ancestors rather than the Scots, but have known it in both places.

Carol

P.S. Anyone feeling festive yet? :)
Title: Re: Scottish Family Names
Post by: trish251 on Wednesday 21 December 05 00:59 GMT (UK)
If anyone can show me a family where the 4th to 14th names are as on that list, I'll happily eat my hat, or anyone else's for that matter!  ;D


Hi Ibi

For the family of 13 that I have who most closely followed Scottish naming patterns
Son  4  is the Mother's Mother's Father
Son 5  is the Mother's Father's Father  - Father's Mother's Father produced a duplicate name  so presumably could not be used.
Son 6 is where it stops, as this is Father's Grandfather, rather than Great grandfather as the link suggests.  The link gives Grandfather as Son 3, but I have always found this to be the father. Grandfather and father would be the same name  for a first born son only.

I think I am too confused to trace the girls, but I believe this, my favourite Scottish family, did try to follow the list, without using Aunts and Uncles, but given the naming patterns, Aunts and Uncles would have the same names as parents, grandparents etc.

Trish
Title: Re: Scottish Family Names
Post by: Forfarian on Thursday 13 April 06 21:40 BST (UK)
I recently came across the following page tucked away on the internet. It lists the typical naming pattern for the first ten sons & first ten daughters:
http://www.halmyre.abel.co.uk/Family/naming.htm

I am a bit wary of this one, as it's the first time I have ever seen a formal listing of naming of the fourth and subsequent sons or daughters. Also in Scotland the third child is named after the parent of the appropriate sex, before the more remote relatives' names are used. I'd be interested to know where this naming pattern for ten of each sex came from.

Actually, given the relatively smal number of given names in regular use, I suspect that it would never actually have been possible to adhere to such a long list  ;)