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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: loo on Thursday 20 October 05 03:24 BST (UK)
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I have reached one of those places in my research where I have the option of trying to convince an LDS bishop that I am indeed descended from so-and-so, so that I may have the privilege of going to Salt Lake City and viewing some records that are not accessible in any other way. Perhaps some of you have had the same experience.
I have no idea what would be in this kind of record, if I were to go there. The website doesn't really tell me very much at all.
I would want to know that it was going to give me something I wanted to know before I even considered going. The record in question is of a woman born in 1794 in the Netherlands, my ggggmother.
I'm also wondering what other sorts of things one might find there that couldn't be found in any large city. I live in Canada, but, to be honest, I'd rather take a trip to England than to the US! Unfortunately, you can't send anyone to do "look-ups" with this kind of a restricted-access record.
Please share your experiences!
thanks,
Loo
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A long time ago.
Great scenery, hiking, camping, skiing, wildlife, fossils.
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Hi Loo:
What kind of records are you wanting to look at? I have been to Salt lake city once a year for the past 10 years to do research and found lots of information there. They have tons of films etc. Plus it is a really nice city to visit as well.
Anne
Canada
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I find it difficult to say what I'm looking for because I don't know what they have. I'm not advanced enough as a baby genealogist to know what I'm looking for, because I haven't exhausted the things that are more accessible, and I don't know what else I'm going to need.
I'm just starting to think ahead, and am really wondering about this restricted-access tree that I can apparently only get in Salt Lake, and only after I convince a Mormon bishop that I'm in a direct line to the person in question. It all seems a bit much, in terms of rigmarole, and I don't even know what it is that I'd be looking at in the end!
In general, I'd just like to know what kinds of resources they have there that you can't get here.
What is it that keeps you going back there, Anne? Do you not have a good library where you live? Or is it that they have other kinds of things there? How does one even find out what they have?
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:)I have a family line who went from Cornwall to Copenhagen,one family member married and then they emmigrated to Ogden Weber Utah and they are buried in the Huntsville cemetery.
Would I have to go to Utah to find information or is it available online.
I'm new to this but the little verbal family information I have fits as well.
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Hi Loo,
I am going to visit Utah next year all the way from Oz ;D
Luckily for me I have a friend/distant relative there who is well versed in how it all works and can show me the ropes ;)
I am planning on looking up stacks of stuff over a week or 10 days, that for me is better than ordering the films here and then having to keep doing that taking heaps of time! Also I want to look at some German stuff that is available there but not in Europe (it is restricted to non-LDS members in Europe but not in Utah) is this the type of restriction that you were meaning? Cause I don't know about having to prove descent to LDS bishops....
Good luck with it all :)
Jenny
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Jenny, how did you even find out that what you wanted on your German ancestors was only available in Utah? (I too have a German line that I'm very keen on learning more about, as well as a completely separate Dutch one. At the moment I know little more than their names and approx birthdates.)
I don't think I'm referring to the same kind of record that you are. It showed up when I pursued a pedigree chart at www.familysearch.org . This is what I got when I clicked on the Film Number:
"Title
Sealings for the dead, couples and children (includes some living spouses and children) 1943-1970; heir indexes, 1943-1965
Authors
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Salt Lake Temple (Main Author)
Notes
No circulation to family history centers. Access to these records requires patron show proof that they may include his/her own lineage. Must show temple recommend or bishop's letter to use material. Photocopying not allowed.
HEIR INDEXES list the oldest male person to be baptized into the L.D.S. Church as the index term for the sealings of his ancestors. This system was not very accurate because heirs often had common ancestors. Two families descending from differnt lines of the same person might designate different heirs for that person. . SEALING SHEETS are family group records with an appended column on the right margin listing the proxies who performed the ordinances. The sheets are arranged chronologically by sealing date. .
This file contains patron submitted sealings. Beginning in the 1960s, many names for sealings of children to parents were generated by the controlled extraction program. For these sealings through 1971, look under "Sealings for the dead, children to parents, controlled extraction, 1967-1971," in the author/title catalog. Extraction batches prior to 1970 were given a P number. Beginning in 1970 they were given a C number. For these batches look under "Endowments and sealings for the dead, controlled extraction," in the author/title catalog. Controlled extraction temple work can also be found in the topical catalog for either of these titles under "Temple records - Salt Lake Temple."
In the 1970s the record of patron submitted sealings was divided into different files reflecting different processing procedures: 1) Family file--sealings cleared by the Genealogical Department and reserved for family members to perform at the temple, 2) Patron temple file--same as family file except the names were not reserved for family members, 3) Rush processing--family file given priority in processing, 4) Manual processing--sealings that could not be processed by the computer system for various reasons, 5) Temple originated records--sealings processed from patron records presented at the temple, 6) Family entry--sealings submitted on family group sheets.
Look for these records in the author/title catalog under: 1) Sealings for the dead, family file, 1970- . 2) Endowments and sealings for the dead, patron temple file, 1970- . 3) Sealings for the dead, rush processing, 1976-1981. 4) Sealings for the dead, manual processing, 1970-1981. 5) Temple originated records, 1970- . 6) Sealings for the dead, family entry, 1979-1981.
Subjects
Utah, Salt Lake, Salt Lake City - Church records
Temple records - Salt Lake Temple
Format
Manuscript (On Film)
Language
English
Publication
Salt Lake City, Utah : Filmed by the Genealogical Society of Utah, 1959, 1975, 1980
Physical
1945 microfilm reels ; 35 & 16 mm.
Film Notes
Note - Location [Film]
Heir index to v. 3F-4Z Jun 1942-Dec 1948 - FHL SPECIAL Film [ 184717 ]
Heir index Jan 1949-Dec 1952 - FHL SPECIAL Film [ 184718 ]
Heir index Jan 1953-Oct 1955 - FHL SPECIAL Film [ 184719 ]
Heir index Oct 1955-Jan 1958 - FHL SPECIAL Film [ 184720 ]
Heir index Jan 1958-Aug 1960 - FHL SPECIAL Film [ 485799 ]
Heir index Aug 1960-Jun 1963 - FHL SPECIAL Film [ 485800 ]
Heir index Jun 1963-Dec 1965 - FHL SPECIAL Film [ 485801 ]
SEALINGS OF COUPLES AND CHILDREN
Vol. 3E/3F 23 Apr 1942 (sealings of children) - FHL SPECIAL Film [ 1063708 Item 2 ]
Vol. 3E/3F 30 Apr 1942 - FHL SPECIAL Film [ 1063709 ]
Vol. 3E/3F 28 May 1942 (sealings of couples as well as children begin 12 Jun) - FHL SPECIAL Film [ 1063710 ]"
(And it continues on like this for many many pages.)
There's a lot of terminology that I don't understand here, which is undoubtedly clear to any Mormon!
I'm not familiar with different regulations that apply in Salt Lake as opposed to in Europe etc.
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Hi Loo:
Just read your last message. Sorry I did not write much yesterday but I have just had four wisdom teeth taken out and needless to say I am not feeling that great !! On pain killers so head a little fuzzy!!
The films you mention " special films" I think they are the once you just have to request from the desk and they bring them out to you. They are not kept on the main floors!! Going to the library there is great they had films for census, parish records, school records etc. Every film you find on the library cataloge is there and you just have to go to the filing cabinet and get the film out you need.
THe nearest family history center to me is 1 1/2 hours away and I only go in the summer not in the winter when the roads are bad ( I leave in Canada) and I don;t like winter driving. So when I go to SLC for a week and can get lots done and I usually work on a couple of families at time.
I think if you went you would be hooked and would want to go again. I have a relative that when from England and found more out about her family there then she could in England as the records where all there and she did not have to go to different record offices.
Hope this helps.
Anne
Canada
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Hi Loo,
I must admit I had a little help with my German ancestors ;)
I was already back to the 1820's and had a name and place, then what you can do is go into the familysearch website, click on library, then family history library catalogue, and do a place search:
for example my rellie Louisa Wilhelmina Marsteller b. 17 Oct 1839 Grüningen, Hessen, father Adam Christian Marsteller (from death record in Australia)
Typed in Grüningen in the place search, several choices come up and selected Hessen...
Then all the records for that place will be displayed - church records are fantastic the Kirchenbuch which came up covered 1646 to 1876, looked her father up and there he was and the whole family back to the 1600's (lucky for me they didn't move much) the book has a numerical order so you just look at the parents number, then look at that page etc to go back...you can go forward the same way too ;D
The books are in German, but pretty quickly you figure out what the words for born/died etc are and bob's your uncle..
Not all areas have Kirchenbuch's but many do, just search in the keywords area if you have trouble cause I have found some towns that way when they didn't come up in the place search. I can look at these records in Europe I just have to visit each individual place/church so it is a bit easier to do it in Utah, besides I have a friend there I want to vist...still plan on visiting the real towns though eventually ;)
as for the other I have never looked at heir indexes so I can't help there
Hopefully this helps in someway, good luck you can get pretty far with the German stuff if you get the right records
Jenny
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That's a helpful example of how it all works; thanks, Jen.
Was this computer record something that you could only access in Utah?
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Hi Loo,
Which computer record do you mean? Do you mean the catalogue? If so you can access that on the website. If you mean the Kirchenbuch's they are on microfilm at the library in Utah it is not a computer record :)
Also the church books are in book form in Europe certainly and elsewhere probably too, there are other books that people (usually pastors etc from the churches) have complied from these records showing the families of a certain town etc. You can find some of these in the LDS catalogue.
I have not as yet been to Utah to look at the microfilm, but a friend of mine photocopied the entire book for Grüningen for me and posted it to me from Germany ;D He is a legend cause he helped with the translations too
I have also been in touch with a fellow I found on the internet about another town my rellies are from called Staufenberg, and he e-mailed me the relevant last names I was searching for, so I guess that is a possibility...when in doubt Google it ;)
What I am excited about seeing are other Kirchenbuch's for regions where I do not have a contact, and I think that the Salt Lake City Library is the best place for me to view them all, I am getting kinda excited now....but I am not heading there until Feb 2006.
I hope this helps explain a bit, any other questions let me know :)
Jenny
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Thanks, Jenny.
I suspect that the ancestors in question were actually Jewish, although they became assimilated in England, and got married in parish churches in England to English wives. I'm wondering if they were doing the same thing in Germany, namely assimilating, but I actually doubt that, for reasons not worth explaining here. I find myself wondering whether there are any Jewish records any longer in Germany, considering the Holocaust. Perhaps civil registrations would be my best bet, when I can get them. I don't yet know precisely where he was born, so that is a limitation for now at least.
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Well Loo,
I am not sure how many jewish records exist but there were definately some for Grüningen, listed as 'Matrikel' for the years 1823-1875. I am not sure if a 'Matrikel' is the same sort of record as a kirchenbuch but it certainly says that it covers "Registration of Jewish births, marriages and deaths in Grüningen, Hessen, Germany" so that sounds promising :)
When you locate his place of birth there might be similar records there, you never know your luck... at least it seems that some sort of record survived ;)
In fact some Kirchenbuch's report that Jewish records are included so that is promising also. I am not sure what time period you are trying to research but civil registration might be a good start..
Good luck with the search for his birthplace :)
Jenny
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My German ones date from 1860s, and the Dutch one is 1794. Hopefully, for the German ones at least, who are the ones I suspect of being Jewish, there might be some civil registration. I am reminded that the Nazis were very keen on pedigree, so that they could eliminate lots of people, so perhaps those records have survived after all.
Thank you for showing me how to navigate familysearch. I didn't realize all that information was there. There is nothing that (yet) specifically relates to my folks, but perhaps eventually I will find something.
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Thanks also to Anne for explanations. Hope you're feeling better now!
I think I'm not ready for Utah yet!
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Hello loo:
I think any one is ready for Utah anytime. all you need is a little bit of information to get started and you won;'t believe what you can find there. I started out with the baptism of my great grandfather from the IGI. From that information I get the film number to look up the actual film for the parish records. Found other brothers and sisters on the film plus marriages. Then went on to the census records to track the film and then worked back wards from there. Like I said before they had loads and loads of information on films and microfiche there.
I am feeling better each day of the big pain killers now but still eating soup and mashed potatoes !! Think that will be my diet for the next week or so.
Anne
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Good luck Loo, I am willing to bet that there will be something in Utah that relates to your family....sometimes it just takes some teasing out ;)
I am getting better at navigating through the catalogue but am sure I am still missing out on stuff!!
By the 1860's my German's were in Australia so unfortunately I cannot help there, hopefully the civil registration stuff is not too hard to figure out :)
Jenny
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Don't forget the extensive library of books there also, great swathes of information not on micro-film or fiche.
Cheers
Guy
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What information did you have to provide to the bishop? Looks like I'll be going down the same route
Monique
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I haven't done it (yet), so I don't know, other than they want you to prove your lineage to the record in question, or as close to proof as possible. Mine is from late 1700s, so the links aren't airtight, but certainly arguable.
Please post what happens with yours.
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Hi Loo,
Did you ever get to Utah? Sounds like you have been diligently doing lots of research over the years, so I would imagine that you eventually made the trip? I went a couple years ago - solo - and it was wonderful. A bit overwhelming at first, but I did manage to find lots of microfilms of BMD records that applied to my ancestors.
*Bring a notebook and carefully record every search and film# that you look at, because there is so much good information that the rabbit trails multiply so fast and before you know it, you don't know where you've been or where you're going to next!
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A long time ago.
Great scenery, hiking, camping, skiing, wildlife, fossils.
I thought about it in my teens but nothing to do with genealogy (maybe the prospect of descendants though) ???
When I was head over heels with Donny Osmond ;D
Alas............
Annie
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No, I never got there, and probably won't at this stage of my life.
However, the good news is that they tell me they are planning to put everything online eventually at familysearch.
And I do seem to have enough to keep me busy with interlibrary loan as well as new info coming online and visits to other places. When would I ever find the time to go to Utah? :-\
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The best advice is to prepare for your trip to the Genealogical Library for many months ahead with notebooks of everything you want to research with film/book numbers already known.
Best place to stay - Salt Lake Plaza Hotel which is next door to the library. Trax Light Rail US $1.25 fare from the Salt Lake Airport for to the hotel for the 65's and over and a savage $2.50 for the rest. The light rail stop is at the hotel.
http://www.plaza-hotel.com/genealogy-en.html
https://www.rideuta.com/Fares-And-Passes/Current-Fares