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General => Armed Forces => Topic started by: weggyg on Wednesday 31 August 05 00:17 BST (UK)
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I have just discovered that my ancestor George Grayburn (born c1789 Hull area) was a Chelsea Pensioner. How do I go about finding more about where he served etc?
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Weggyg!
This will give you some ideas - for research!
http://www.chelsea-pensioners.co.uk/links.asp
Annie
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Thanks - I will try it.
wendy
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Pension records are at the National Archives, Kew, London. See their information leaflet:
http://www.catalogue.nationalarchives.gov.uk/RdLeaflet.asp?sLeafletID=15
Casalguidi
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Hi Wendy
Try Kevin Asplin
Here is his website
http://hometown.aol.co.uk/KevinAsplin/home.html
I found him very helpful, he did a lookup for me not long ago.
David.
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I have two relatives (brothers to my Gx5 Grandfather James Hancock) who are both recorded as being Chelsea Pensioners on the 1851 & 1861 Census.
Richard Hancock born 1787 (Chelsea Pensioner - Blind) & William Hancock born 1792 (Chelsea Pensioner) - both born Herbrandston, Pembrokeshire
Both still resident in Pembroke at time of census.
Can anyone recommend a site or resource to try and find out some more information? How they qualified as Chelsea pensioners, what conflicts they would have fought in, what the "pension" consisted of etc etc
Cheers :)
Moderator Comment: Topics merged
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::) I have Thomas Fennell from Grandborough, Warwickshire born 1797, he served in Canada during 1821 and fathered a child there (Catherine, my husbands ancestor). He then came back to England with his wife Sarah and baby daughter. Is there any way I can find his records, or his wife's birth records? That Chelsea pensioners link at the bottom of the page says 'error, not found' and Kevin Asplin's site isnt working either.
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Could this be him? - http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/displaycataloguedetails.asp?CATID=-3921229&CATLN=7&Highlight=%2CTHOMAS%2CFENNELL&accessmethod=0
This refers to a record on microfilm in Kew. If you cannot visit you can order a copy at 40p a page. There will not be many pages, and the army did not record FH information in this period.
Chelsea Hospital managed the pensions for the army, and you will probably find that he was an out-pensioner, or just pensioner. In-pensioners are the men in red uniform who have exchanged their pension for board and lodgings. Usually only senior NCOs were admitted as the pension of a Private would not cover the charges.
Some army BMDs from before 1837 were recorded separately. You will need someone with a Findmypast account to do a lookup for you. Failing that just about the only way to find an army marriage or birth place of a child is to use the Muster Books (WO12 in Kew). These record where each man was on the first of each month. You can then look up the parish records in the places he visited.
If the man in the 15th Foot is yours you can also look for a 'Historical Records' for the 15th Foot. These were produced in the mid 19th Century and record in great details the movement of the regiment. Again it is only for telling you where the man could have meet his wife.
Ken
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:o Eeek, Im certain thats him, 'Granby' doesn't exist so it makes it all the more likely it was Grandborough. I've requested an estimate, am impressed at how easy the site is to use, at least for ordering copies of documents anyway. Thanks so much Ken, I'm keeping fingers crossed its him!
PS, are the covering dates particular to Thomas only, or is it the general coverage of the whole record file?
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PS, are the covering dates particular to Thomas only, or is it the general coverage of the whole record file?
They should be the dates he served.
I should have posted this link - http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/militaryhistory/army/step4.htm
Ken
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I have an ancestor who became a Chelsea Pensioner in 1822, when he was discharged with a disability, aged 35 years. He had been in the army for 13 years, initially with the 19th Dragoons and, after only 129 days, he was transferred the the Royal African Corps on the Isle of Wight. I understand, from various sources, that the Isle of Wight was used to hold deserters from the army and that the Royal African Corps was mainly made up of convicts and deserters.
My question is; could a deserter be in receipt of a Chelsea Pension, albeit some 12 years earlier?
Many thanks
Andrew
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Hi Andrew
According to the National Archives - http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/DisplayCatalogueDetails.asp?CATID=77154&CATLN=5&FullDetails=True&j=1 - the Royal African Corps was disbanded in 1819. So he couldn't have finished with them. The 1819 Army Lists confirms that they were to be disbanded. It also says they had blue facings (collars and cuffs). The link to WO12 shows that have their muster books. These show where each man was each month.
Deserters could not receive a pension, as they were awarded the pension on discharge...which implies they were present. Men who had deserted and had returned and been punished carried on with their service, assuming they were not discharged with ignominy. The time they were away plus the duration of the punishment was deducted from their pensionable service. I haven't heard of the IOW being used as a military prison. There were four forts on the IOW at the time. They would have had cells, but none are marked as military prisons. In fact there are no military prisons listed, which suggests the nearest public gaol would be used.
Certainly being transferred from the cavalry to the RAC must have been a bit of a come down. Except if he was given a promotion, but they would not have been given the Royal title if they were as bad as you suggest.
If you post his name we may be able to see what other records the NA have.
Ken
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Hi Ken
Thank you very much for that. I'm most grateful to you for your observations.
I'm sure that your comments regarding the Isle of Wight are correct. In which case, would he have been stationed on the Isle of Wight?
His name was Gabriel Wood and was enlisted into the 19th Dragoons at Northampton on 12/12/1808.
On 20/04/1809 he was transferred to The Royal African Corps on the Isle of Wight and, according to WO12 musters & pay lists, served in Senegal & Goree from 1813 to 1815, was in Sierra Leone during December 1816 and in May 1817 was shown as "on passage to Cape". His military career thereafter seems to have disappeared from the WO12 records.
I understand that four companies of the Royal African Corps were disbanded in 1819, but in his book, The British Army in the West Indies, Roger Buckley writes, "The three penal regiments raised for service in the West Indies were disbanded in 1819, four companies of the Royal African Corps were disbanded in West Africa. The remaining companies were kept in service until 1821, when they were broken up at the Cape Colony." I'm assuming that the "remaining companies" refers to the Royal African Corps, particularly as they were at the Cape Colony.
Gabriel's discharge papers, dated 12/10/1822, clearly state that he was in the Royal African Corps from 20/04/1809 until 29 Oct 1822.
With regard to the question of deserters and criminals, I can only quote from other literary sources:
"On 25th April, 1804, the King approved of the regiment being named the Royal African Corps. This regiment was one of the several penal corps or “condemned battalions” raised about this time which were recruited from deserters and culprits from the hulks; a few [black soldiers], however, were also recruited and attached to this corps."
W.Y. Baldry, Journal of the Society for Army Historical Research,
Volume xiv, Number 56 (Winter 1935), pp.233-234.
“The practice of legal escape from prison was readily available to British army deserters. As in the case of culprits and criminals, incarcerated deserters could ordinarily change their prison sentences for service in West Africa and the West Indies.”
again, Roger Buckley, and from the same publication. when referring to both the Royal African Corps and soldiers stationed in the West Indies.
Gabriel's WO16 Disability and Out-Pensions Admission records indicate that he was discharged with the disability of, "extensive Cicatrix on the left ankle", which basically means that he had scar tissue on his ankle, hardly a disability, I would have thought.
However, in the 1851 census, when he was living with his wife at Oundle, Northamptonshire, he was described as a Chelsea Pensioner and 65 years of age. Ten years earlier he was an agricultural labourer.
There is one other conundrum, his discharge papers state that he had been in Africa from 1810, but he cannot be traced in the WO12 records until 1813. He was married at Northampton during December 1808 and a child was born to his wife in 1812, when Gabriel was named as the father and described as a soldier. I'm assuming that members of the Royal African Corps did not enjoy home leave in those days and realise, of course, that Gabriel may not have been the father.
I'm sorry for going on at such length, that had not been my intention at the outset.
Andrew
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Hi Ken
Also found the following passage, which is taken from, Cambridge History of the British Empire: Eric E. Anderson, when describing the frontier conflict at the Cape in 1817:
“The Royal African Corps too, comprising foreign adventurers and captured British deserters, was a constant source of annoyance to the inhabitants.”
Would value your observations on these quotes, which represent only a few of similar statements if seen.
I'm also attaching a copy of WO97/1172/205, which relates to Gabriel's discharge.
Thank you and
Best regards
Andrew
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Sorry, I don't have an opinion, and I cannot read the attachment. If you raise another thread with Royal African Corps in the title it may be spotted by someone with an interest in that particular Corps.
Ken
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Hello Ken
Thank you for your suggestion
Andrew
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Hello Ken
Thank you for your suggestion
Andrew
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Would recommend it to anybody, thankyou so much for your help (10 months ago!). For less than £2 I have a full description of Thomas, along with his notes sent unfolded and uncreased. Happy New Year.