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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Norfolk => Topic started by: Alex and Jan on Thursday 06 October 05 07:26 BST (UK)
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We are looking for details of the THURSTON family from Wreningham - is anyone near the cemetery as a Jeremiah was buried there in 1803 Grave 16A
Quite a lot of the family came to Australia early 1800's
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You may already have these details for 1851
HO/107/1817 F. 241 P 9
Market Place, Hingham Forehoe,Nfk
Thurston
Jeremiah Head 74 Cooper Wreningham Nfk
Dinah Wife 54 Hingham Nfk
Thomas Son U 31 Butcher Hingham Nfk
next door looks like a son of Jeremiah
HO/107/1817 F 241 P9
Hingham,Foreham
William Head 29 Cooper Hingham Nfk
Mary Ann Wife 29 Morley Nfk
Maria E Dau 1 mth Hingham Nfk
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We don't know who stayed behind in England.
Jeremiah b 1719 d 1803 had a son John b 1761 who came to Australia in 1811.
Quite possible the family is from Jeremiah b 1749 or Joseph b 1747
Thanks
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Found him - thanks
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There was also Charles Deeks Thurston b 1817 Hingham
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Alex & Jan
I am a direct decendant of John Thurston 1761 who came to NSW -1811 as a convict.
Do you have any details?
Gunnaoneday
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2 years after our posting you reply !!!!
we had to search through family trees to find the link.
We have a little bit of detail of the Thurston convicts
Johns son Ezekiel's daughter married into the Edwards line which connects to us
Where do you fit in ?
We await your reply
Alex and Jan
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1.Well there you go.
2.Found you by accident
3.I was looking for somebody else & up you came on Rootschat.
4.It must have been the way I worded my Google Inquiry.
5.I am a GGGGGrand son of John Thurston of Wreningham.
6.Have a look at these Old Bailey Record - 2, JOHN THURSTON, SUSANNAH THURSTON, JEREMIAH THURSTON, theft : burglary. The Proceedings of the Old Bailey : Ref: t18091206-2 - www.oldbaileyonline.org/html_sessions/T18091206.html - Trial Middlesex 6/12/1809 - Life - Eancipated.
7.John was born 1761 & the father of Ezekiel, John, Daniel, Robert & William who all came out as convicts over a two year period.
8.I have no record any of the names of the spouses of Ezekiel's five daughters.
9. I have a fairly extensive record & numerous contacts who know more than I on the Thurstons,
Gunnaoneday
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Our link is Jane Thurston who married John Edwards
We knew about the family of convicts who came here.
Alex and Jan
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OK
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Just found this thread on Google.
My mother was a THURSTON.
Her lineage goes back through JEREMIAH 1749
who was brother of "convict" JOHN 1761.
My Question is regarding CHARLES DEEKS THURSTON 1817
apparently had 3 wives all called MARY ANN and 14 children.
MARY ANN KNIGHT c1818
MARY ANN CASELEY c1826
MARY ANN MURRAY c1833
Q1. Did MARY ANN MURRAY really exist ??
and did she have 2 children
JOHN 1853 and CHARLES 1856
Because JOHN 1853 was my Great Grandfather.
Q2. Did Alex and Jan find grave 16A ?
Hoelzle
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I recognized the name as I cruised the Norfolk postings.
I have Thurstons from around the area of Stibbard. I have a Thomas Thurston marrying Mary Applegate in October 1766. Any connection?
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Hi thanks for message.
Unfortunately I dont have these Thurstons in my tree or the placename.
Thats not to say they arent relatives, I just havent discovered a connection yet.
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Re Charles Deeks THURSTONS Marriages'
Familysearch Pilot has;
Charles THURSTON, Father Jeremiah
Mary Ann KNIGHT, Father DANIEL
11 August 1839, Bermondsey, Surrey, England
IGI has it at St Mary Magdalene, Bermondsey
1851 Census his Wife Mary Ann is born c 1819, Barnham, Norfolk
Children are;
Mary Ann, 1841
Emma, 1843
Charles, 1845
Louisa, 1848
Diana, 1850
Rebecca, 1851
1861 Census same Mary Ann, born c 1819, Barnham, Norfolk
Emma, Charles, Diana, Rebecca are still at home plus extra children;
Walter, 1856
Arthur, 1858
Alfred, 1860
Possible Death Reg;
Mary Ann THURSTON, June 1867, Bethnal Green, 1c 185, Age 49
1871 Census is married to Mary A born c 1829, City, Middlesex
Thomas, Walter, Charles, Arthur, Alfred still at home. Extra children;
Albert, 7
Francis J, 2
1881 Census is married to Mary A born c 1826, London, Middlesex
At home are Charles born 1856 and Francis 1869. Extra child;
Jessie, 1875
Marriage from FreeBMD;
Charles THURSTON, September 1867, Whitechapel, 1 771
On the same page is Mary Ann CASEY
So 2 wives so far and 12 Children. Maybe more that died between censuses.
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Probable Death;
Charles Dicks THURSTON, March 1884, Whitechapel, 1c 229, Age 64
Age and name are a little out but it depends who Reg the death as to how accurate the info is that is given.
Trish :)
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Looking back at your original info Hoezle I am confused;
I have no idea how John 1853 and Charles 1856 fit into the children of Charles Deeks Thurston.
Do you have your Johns Marriage Cert?
Birth Cert?
1871 Census
Bethnal Green, London
RG10/481/35/66
Charles THURSTON, 51, Head, Mar, Carpenter and Joiner, born Hingham, Norfolk
Mary Ann, 42, Wife, Mar, born Middlesex, City
THOMAS, 17, Son, Plasterer, born Finsbury
Walter, 15, Son, Plasterer, born Bethnal Green
CHARLES, 15, Son, Plasterer, born Bethnal Green
Arthur, 13, Son, born Bethnal Green
Alfred, 10, Son, born Bethnal Green
Albert, 7, Son, born Shoreditch
Francis J, 2, Son, born Bethnal Green
1861 census there is no John born 1853 or Charles born 1856.
So is Thomas in 1871 born c 1854 Finsbury your John. Is he John Thomas?
Where was he in 1861 and Charles also?
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Thanks for your reply,
I do have a copy of John Thomas' birth certificate;
Born 30th October 1853.
10 Chapel Court, Finsbury.
Father Charles Thurston
Mother Mary Ann Thurston formerly Murry
Occupation of father Carpenter
Registered eighteenth November 1853.
By way of an exchange of information I forward below the notes of a fellow researcher that I just received who I am sure wont mind and also echoes some of your points;
"I have spent many hours on this "mystery".
Charles Deeks Thurston was my Great Great Grandfather
through his son John Thomas, sometimes known
as just Thomas.
It is quite a complex story. But first there is no Mary Ann Murray at 1 Ann
Place, Bethnal Green in 1861, only Mary Ann Thurston born in Barnham Broom,
Norfolk. This is his first known wife, Mary Ann Knights.
I have not established exactly who Mary Ann Murray / Murry was.
I don't believe they were married.
First of all Charles Deeks Thurston had a son also named Charles Deeks
Thurston. He was born in 1845. He is listed in the 1861 Census at 1 Ann
Place. He married Frances Dawton. They had no children. He died after 1901. [There was also a nephew of the same name in Norfolk]
In the 1871 Census there is a younger Charles aged 15 (b about 1855) and the first appearance of a Thomas[John Thomas] who is 17. The coincidence of
Charles Snr marrying 3 Mary Anns would be unusual but I have not found any
one else with two children with the same first name born 10 years apart,
with the eldest one still living. Sometimes a middle name will be used as a
first name as in John Thomas's case. In this case neither Thomas or Charles
are living in the 1861 household. I have their birth certificates which clearly show their mother as Mary Ann Murray.
Charles Thurston [Not Charles "Deeks" Thurston] is given as the father, but
his profession is listed as Carpenter and Journeyman Carpenter which match
Charles Deeks'.
There is a 1861 Census record where both Thomas and Charles are listed with
a mother surnamed Murray. The only problem is that it is Sarah Murry [widow]
and both the children are surnamed Murry. They are living at 6&7
CLOTH FAIR. On its own this is not proof that these are the Thomas and
Charles living with Charles Deeks Thurston in the
1871 Census, but in the 1891 Census [Charles Deeks Snr died in 1884] John
gives his birth place as London CLOTH FAIR. This is highly unusual
as it is not the birthplace given in any other census return. At most only
34 [in the 1891 census] list this as their birth place. Cloth Fair is a
small street, not a suburb. Nor was this where he was born, but it is the
last recorded location for him before he moved in with his natural father.
Interestingly in the 1871 and 1881 census there is also a Mary Murray who
lists Cloth Fair as her birthplace. This Mary Murray I am still
investigating.
Make of it what you will, I believe that the mother of John Thomas and
Charles was not Charles' wife but his mistress."
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I have an indirect question regarding
my grandfather Ewart Thurston 1893
His wife was Lilian Frost 1891
Her father was Arthur Frost 1865
His father was Philip Frost 1830
Philip married Rosetta Cecil 1834
Her father was William Cecil 1785
We cannot trace any history of William
other than occupation tailor
living in Brighton, Sussex
married to Jane ?
His daughter Rosetta was christened
in St Nicholas Church Brighton 23/03/1834
Should this be posted in the Frost or the Cecil topics?
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No sure but maybe easier to keep everything together as they seem to get around the Country.
Rosetta Mary CECIL's Christening has Father WILLIAM, Mother JANE and;
Marriage Record (Eng/Wale) 1 June 1857, has her Father as WILLIAM, And Phillips Father HENRY Frost
Christenings;
FREDERICK Cecil 19 April 1829
ALFRED Cecil 15 April 1832
At S Nicholas , Brighton, Sussex , Parents William and Jane
1851 Census, 4 Norfolk St, Brighton, Sussex has;
Jane CECIL, 53, Tailors Widow, born Weymouth, Dorset
Frederick, 22, Tailor
Alfred, 19, Tailor
ROSE, 17, Embroidress
Jane, 14, Servant
All born Brighton, Sussex
HO107/1646/371/14
Familysearch Pilot has a John Francis CECIL, Christened 7 January 1816 to William CECIL and Jane HAYWARD
Union St Chapel Independant, Brighton, Sussex
Jane Eliza Cecil, 1826, St Nicholas
Ellen Jane CECIL, 10 July 1836, St Nicholas
POSETTA MARY Cecil, 23 March 1834, St Nicholas
Beatrice Jane Cecil, 20 June 1830, St Nicholas
Marriage of a LOUISA Ann Cecil, Father WILLIAM to David HOBBS 1942, Brighton.
##There is a BURIAL of a WILLIAM Cecil, 20 August 1850, Brighton, Sussex##
1841 Census
5 Norfolk St,
Brighthelmstone, Brighton, Sussex
HO107/1122/17/Brighthelmstone
William CECIL, 51, Tailor
Jane, 42
Louisa, 20
Frederick, 12
Alfred, 9
ROSA, 7
Jane, 5
All born in County
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Just trying to put this together!
We have a possible child;
JOHN FRANCIS Cecil 1816
Definitely have;
LOUISA abt 1821, married David HOBBS 1842
JANE ELIZA 1826
FREDERICK 1829
BEATRICE JANE 1830
ALFRED 1832
ROSA MARY 1834
ELLEN JANE 1836 ( Known as Jane probably from census data)
Possible Marriage;
William CECIL
Jane HAYWOOD, 15 August 1814, Bedminster, Somerset
( Source Familysearch Pilot)
As Jane was born Dorset it is likely that they married nearer there. Somerset and Dorset share a border.
Also the only LOUISA ANN Cecil Christening I can find with Parents William and Jane is this;
10 December 1820, Frampton Cotterell, Gloucester, England
This matches Louisas age on the 1841 census before her Marriage.
The point of this is although they are all down as born in County in 1841 we know that Jane wasnt and possibly Louisa.
Therefore William may have not been either.
I will see if I can find Louisa in 1851 and possible Brother John born c 1816
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John CECIL born c 1817, Brighton is in Warickshire in 1851.
HO107/2051/516/23
Surprise 8) He is a Tailor and Draper.
Louisa says she is born Worthing, Sussex.
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Wow! so much info thanks Trish.
I shall need some time to fully digest all this.
I do have the marriage certificate for Louisa Ann Cecil to David Hobbs (Father William) 11 Dec 1842 St Nicholas Brighton.
It would appear David was born in Goudhurst Kent and Louisa Ann in Worthing as you say.
David went on to become a shipping agent and he died in 1905 and Louisa in 1904.
Louisa's marriage witnessed by Jane Cecil (aged 44) & Richard Martin
Does it look as though William Cecil and Jane may have married in Worthing?
And could Louisa have been born in Reading Berkshire because her parents lived there? then perhaps William & Jane were married in Reading?
Frederick Cecil 1829, went on to have 6 children including;
Francis William Cecil 1855 and
John Alfred Cecil 1863
So if name association is relevant then -
John Francis Cecil 1816 is certainly a child of William & Jane although Jane was only 17 or 18 when she had him?
Also Jane Elizabeth is not shown in either 1841 or 1851 census
when she would have been 15 and 25 yrs old.
As she is only on FamilySearch Pilot.
Does this make her suspect?
Hope I've got it right,
Regards.
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In memory of Jeremiah Thurston who died July 10th 1803, aged 84 years. Record of the memorial inscriptions in Wreningham, All Saints churchyard in the County of Norfolk. grave stone number 16A.
Jeremiah Thurston born 1719, married Grace Bushell widow, 7th Oct 1746, Grace bap.7th Aug. 1720 at St. Peter Mancroft, Norwich, daughter of Jeremiah and Grace Bottomley. Grace had 3 other sisters bap. at St. Peter Mancroft, Mary 3rd Aug. 1713, Susanna 23rd Oct, 1715 (married Bartholomew Jelly 21st May 1738), and Martha bap. 26th Mar, 1718. Grace was living in Wymondham when she first married Samuel Bushell 30th June 1740. Samuel Bushell died in Dec 1742, later Grace married Jeremiah Thurston, they had 5 children:
1. Joseph Thurston bap. 1st Mar 1747, he died when he was 75.
2. Jeremiah bap. 9th Nov 1749, married Susannah Hubbard 6th Feb 1771. Wit. were Robert Thurston and Susanna Livock. They had 9 children all bap, in Wreningham, i) Robert 21st July 1771, ii) Susannah Dec 1773, iii) Grace Feb 1776, iv) Jeremiah Feb 1778, v) Susan Dec 1779, vi) Mary Jan 1780, vii) John May 1781, viii) William mar 1893 and ix) Thomas 8th July 1787.
There is a little more information in the book at my local library. If anyone would like anymore information please get in touch. The book is Past Days of Wreningham, Norfolk Compiled by Basil K. Day of Norfolk.
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Thanks Wreningham (fitting username) for your reply,
I have to say after weeks of trying to locate a copy of this book by Basil Day and my local library telling me there isn't a single copy available in the country, I contacted Basil directly and purchased my own copy.
What a wealth of information it has turned out to be.
I am thrilled to be the proud owner of this iconic work produced by him & his wife and I shall lock it away at night for safe keeping.
What a mammoth task and he said it took the best part of 15 years to compile and none of it was referenced by computer, all done by good old Post Office snail mail and he doesn't even have an email address!!
Thanks again for making contact.
Kind regards.
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It was my pleasure. I am so glad that you had discovered this book beforehand. Otherwise I would have given you his addressto make contact with him. I am sure that he would have been very pleased to have some-one contact him, in regard to all his work in producing this wonderful book.
Regards Wreningham
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Just found this conversation and joined the forum. I am researching my partner's family tree. He is descended from Jeremiah Thurston 1719-1803 and Grace Bottomley 1718-1800 via John Thurston 1759-1834, John Lock Thurston 1781-1816, John J Thurston 1816-1884, Elizabeth Thurston 1851-1901, and then his grandmother and father. We would like to know how to contact Basil Day about his book on Wreningham. Also to connect with relatives in Australia especially re pictures.
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Is anyone still researching this Cecil family?
I believe that Wiliam Cecil, tailor, married Jane Hayman in 1814 Bedminster, Bristol.
They had John Francis Cecil bapt 1816 Brighton, non con, where his mother is "late Hayman"
Louisa Ann Cecil bapt 1820 Frampton Cotterell
William Hayman Cecil bapt 1820 Frampton Cotterell
Then the rest of the children bapt Brighton.
William was probably born in Herefordshire
The 1830 will of John Cecil of Much Dewchurch names son "William Cecil of Brighton"
Dave