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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: Kae on Monday 16 August 04 18:50 BST (UK)
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Robert Thomas Harden Kearnes, b.1920 d. RAF over Germany WWII.
his parents were:
Charles ‘Charlie’ Kearnes, b. 28/03/1890, Surrey. d.?
Married: Nellie May Spong, St Marys Church Ramsden Health, 05/06/1917.
b.1895. d,?
his father was a cabbie in london, and moved to Chelmsford in his later years.
Robert died while fighting in ww2- apparently over germany, we do not know if he was a pilot or gunner or other.
if anybody knows how to find deaths during combat please let me know.
Thanks
Kae
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The Commonwealth War Graves Commission has an online database of casualties from the world wars at www.cwgc.org
A quick search gave this result:
Name: KEARNES, ROBERT THOMAS HARDEN
Initials: R T H
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Sergeant (W. Op.)
Regiment: Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve
Unit Text: 10 Sqdn.
Age: 23
Date of Death: 06/09/1943
Service No: 913467
Additional information: Son of Charles and Nellie May Kearnes, of Ilford, Essex.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: Coll. grave 21.A. 1-4.
Cemetery: RHEINBERG WAR CEMETERY
The site also has details of how you can find out more. I think there will almost certainly be a fair amount of records at the National Archives for you to find as well, although wait for someone to confirm that for you.
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thanks for the info sounds like our Robert,
;D ;D ;D
kae
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Dear Kae
I am writing you from Germany. My name is Erik Wieman. I am a citizen of the Netherlands, living in Germany. I am a member of a Crash-Site Research Group (“AG Vermisstenforschung”) under the direction of Uwe Benkel. Since 1989 our group has recovered and located more than 150 crashed planes and many missing crew members. Our primary goal is to find missing pilots and crew members, give them the burial they deserve, but for all, bring them home.
I live in a little town near Ludwigshafen/Mannheim. A few weeks ago I heard an english bomber crashed here in WW2. Date/Type: 05. Sept 1943. Halifax MkII JD 322 ZA-V. It crashed here after being shot up by a night fighter and flak after a mission over Mannheim. One Crew member was Wireless Operator Sgt. Kearnes, Robert Thomas Harden, 913467, RAF.
After I heard about the crashed plane I placed an add in the local newspaper to find out more about the crash. Shortly afterwards I could talk to contemporary witnesses and they told me everything they´d seen the night of the crash and the days afterwards. The result of this is that we probably have found the crash site. Shortly we will investigate the site with metal detectors.
Immediatly I started my search for relatives in the internet but, till now, I could not find anyone related to one of the crew members. It would be great if you could provide us with anything you know or have about Robert Thomas Kearnes, pictures etc., maybe even also about the other members of the crew. Till now we do not have any pictures of the crew or more detailed personal information.
Crew:
D'Eath, Denis Murray, 144788, Pilot (RAF)
Dee, Eric Hubert, 157194, Navigator (RAF)
Kearnes, Robert Thomas Harden, 913467, Wireless Operator (RAF)
Astin, Alan, 1675694, Flight Engineer (RAF)
McPherson, Coran Cyman, 14996, Bomb Aimer (RCAF, Canada)
Heinig, John Peter, 178656, Air Gunner (RCAF, Canada)
Cooper, William Allen, 1602272, Air Gunner (RAF)
We are still at the beginning, but maybe, in the near future, there hopefully wille be a possibility to plant a commemorative plaque at the crash site, in remembrance of what happened there that night in september 1943, and the seven lives that were lost, at exactly that spot.
Hoping to hear from you, an thank you very much for your time and cooperation.
Sincerely
Erik Wieman
AG Vermisstenforschung
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Hello Erik and welcome to RootsChat.
Unfortunately Kae, who started this enquiry in 2004, has not visited this website since 2006. If their email address hasn't changed they will be notified of your message, and will be able to reply to you.
I have asked our moderators if they can try to contact Kae for you if the email address doesn't work.
I wish you and your colleagues the very best of luck with your important work.
Best regards,
Carol
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Hello Erik,
Welcome to RootsChat.
Just to confirm that a email notification has been send out to Kae with no problem. I will send Kae out a new password so that they can access their old account.
Really looking forward to hearing more about the crashed plane that your groups has found.
Kind Regards
Sarah :)
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Thank you Carol & Sarah!
I hope she´ll receive your email and there will be a reply soon!
Thank you very much!
Kind Regards
Erik
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Hi Erik,
This was unexpected! - so much so I thought the email reminder I received was a fraudulent attack! - reading this thread it all makes sense! - Thanks Carol & Sarah!
Regarding Robert Thomas Harden Kearnes - sadly I do not know of any photos, I but I will ask my grandfather (Eric Kearnes who will be 90 next years) if he has any photos or any information - my grandfather also was involved in WW2 - the medical corps, I wonder where he was at the time the plane was shot down? I must ask him.
I would appreciate any information you find, photos of the site etc. The idea of a commemoration plaque appeals to my sentimental side. Please keep do me informed.
I will seek as much as I can find.
Kind regards
Kae
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Great to hear from you Kae!
Even the smallest piece of the puzzle can help. Anything you can find. And of course I will keep you posted. We are still waiting for the final GO. I am sure we will find something.
We have the approximate area but we still have to pinpoint it exactly with metal detecting equipment. I will send you pictures of the exact site as soon as possible.
My email adress *
Hope to hear from you soon!
Kind regards
Erik
(*) Moderator Comment: e-mail removed in accordance with RootsChat policy,
to avoid spamming and other abuses.
Please use the Personal Message (PM) system for exchanging personal data.
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You've reignited my family tree interest!
As you'll see in the thread back in 2004 I was told the cemetery Robert was buried in, some one has last year added a photo of the grave stones of all the crew.
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=18407197
http://image2.findagrave.com/photos/2014/148/18407197_1401361740.jpg
kind regards Kae
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Hello Kae
I could lay my hands on a cemetery bill. Only five airmen were recovered at the crash site in 1943. Not seven (there were seven crew members aboard the plane). This leaves a few questions. I have found the picture of those seven graves too. Note the age of the two air-gunners. It´s missing. This leaves a question too. Why are their ages missing (MOD must have had them) and why were only five men recovered and buried at our cemetery directly after the crash. After the war they (5) were exhumated and send to Rheinberg. There are seven names/graves in Rheinberg! The plane exploded in the air. Maybe the other two bailed out oder have fallen out of the plane(parts) in mid-air, were found later, but our contemporary witnesses never heard anything about other bodys or bodyparts found. Yet. What if they found only several bodyparts, of only five different crew members, and buried them. Our witnesses told me, identification must have been very hard. They were all badly burned. They all talked about five airmen. Not seven. The cemetery bill underlines that. What if there are still remains of the crew in the ground. We must find out.
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Hello Kae
10 Sqn Association has been asked by Erik Wieman to help with research into the relatives of the crew of Halifax JD322 which was lost on a bombing raid to Mannheim on 06.09.43. The aircraft was a Halifax Mk 11 of no 10 Squadron operating out of RAF Melbourne in Yorkshire.
From the squadron ops dairies which were kept by all squadrons during the war, I have been able to find information regarding the months leading up to the loss of the aircraft. The crew arrived on the squadron on the 17.07.43. They flew on 5 operations before losing their lives on 06.9.43. If you are interested in this I can send you a copy of the spreadsheet.
Last September we commemorated the crew of another 10 Sqn Halifax, which was shot down in March 1944. It was an emotional and rewarding experience to have the families of the crew with us in the act of remembrance.
If you are able to locate any photographs of Eric or his crew it will be a great help to piece together their story.
I flew on 10 sqn as a Loadmaster in the 1970's and we are very proud of those crews who went before us and gave their lives at such a young age.
Look forward to hearing from you.
Ann Bihan
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Hello Kae
Hope to hear from you soon. All the best for 2016.
Kind regards
Erik
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Hi Kea
I agree with Erik it would be good to hear from you soon. We would be grateful if you could contact one of us.
My research on the families of the crew is coming along and I have managed to find 2 contacts and possibly another in America so it would be fantastic to hear from you.
Kind regards
Ann
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Hi Ann & Erik,
Happy New Year to you both
I would love to have any information you would share with me, sadly I do not know of any photos of Robert TH Kearnes. I've asked my Grandad (Eric Kearnes) who was in the army at the same time, but as far I know they never met even though they share a family connection (& name).
I know a little about his parents but that is mostly family hearsay rather than facts.
Kind regards
Kae
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Dear Kea / Erik
Kea so good to hear from you and Happy New Year.
Having read your e-mail I wondered what relation Robert Kearnes was to your Grandfather and if you have any information regarding any siblings that Robert may have had; if any.
It is a shame there are no family photographs of Robert but at Melbourne in Yorkshire, the station from which 10 squadron flew during the war, they have a small museum in the old air traffic control building. The walls are covered in 10 Sqn photographs and memorabilia so there is a slight possibility a photograph may be there somewhere on the wall.
I do think your research into Robert’s war time service is commendable. The stress and anxiety these young men must have gone thorough is unimaginable. The average age of a crew was around 20 to 22 years of age. It is so good to know that Robert is not forgotten. The loss of his crew in such terrible circumstances was horrifying.
Last year I researched the families of another 10 Sqn aircraft that was shot down, whilst on the infamous raid to Nuremberg, on the 31.03.1944. In September we held a commemoration at the crash site just north of Frankfurt. It was an unforgettable experience and it meant so much to the families.
I have attached a time line for Robert’s crew from the time they arrived on 10 Sqn on the 17.07.1943 until they were shot down on 5. 09.1944. You will see that Robert died on his 5th operation. Many inexperienced crews were lost on their early operations. As they gained more experience they increased their chances of survival, a few of them completing up to 40 or 50 operations. I hope you will find the timeline interesting
If you are interested 10 Squadron Association has a web site http://www.10sqnass.co.uk. Some of the areas are for members only of the association only but it does give you some idea of the history of the squadron and the part they play in the RAF today.
Did you know that you can also obtain Robert’s Record of Service. Details can be obtained at https://www.gov.uk/guidance/requests-for-personal-data-and-service-records
Look forward to hearing from you again. I do hope the attachments will open OK. Let me know if there are any problems. If you feel there is anything that would help in the research I would be happy to receive it.
Kind regards
Ann
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Kea
i am having problems sending the attachments. I will contact Rootschat help and will try again tomorrow.
Ann