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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => London & Middlesex Lookup Requests => London and Middlesex => England => London & Middlesex Completed Lookup Requests => Topic started by: sadie on Friday 30 September 05 21:27 BST (UK)

Title: Dunbar Mystery - Shoreditch
Post by: sadie on Friday 30 September 05 21:27 BST (UK)
Hello

I am hoping that someone can shed some light.

I have a Mary Ann Dunbar who married a William Joseph Burleigh in 1878 in Shoreditch, Mary Anns. According to Mary Ann's birth certificate it states that her mother was a Selina Dunbar formerly Harlock & her father was Joseph Dunbar, both living at 45 Upper John Street, Hoxton Old Town, Middlesex. His profession a Carman.

I have tried to search for a marriage of a Selina Harlock & Joseph Dunbar without luck, the odd thing though is that I have located a marriage for a Selina Harlock & a Thomas Dunbar of Shoreditch, I ordered the certificate & found that Thomas is a Carman as per his daughters birth certificate & that his father is an Alexander Dunbar, this matches with the birth certificate I have for a Joseph Dunbar. I wondered if perhaps Joseph's middle name was Thomas, but I cannot find that it is. Someone suggested that perhaps Thomas is Joseph's brother & that Selina married the brother after. I have not yet found that Joesph had a brother Thomas.

None of the census's I have mention a Thomas with a Selina only a Joseph.

Is someone able to help me understand why the marriage states a Thomas & not a Joesph as I think it should be.

Many thanks for your help.

Sadie
Title: Re: Dunbar Mystery - Shoreditch
Post by: winston on Friday 30 September 05 22:34 BST (UK)
Hi

I don't know whether this will help or not but I did find your Joseph in the 1861 with his mum and dad


 Alexander Dunbar abt 1817  Scotland Head  Shoreditch St Leonard  Middlesex

Margaret Dunbar abt 1826  Scotland Wife  Shoreditch St Leonard  Middlesex   

Margaret Dunbar abt 1851  Stepney, Middlesex, England Daughter  Shoreditch St Leonard  Middlesex
   
 Mary E Dunbar abt 1853  Stepney, Middlesex, England Daughter  Shoreditch St Leonard  Middlesex   

Joseph Dunbar abt 1855  Stepney, Middlesex, England Son  Shoreditch St Leonard  Middlesex   

Charles Dunbar abt 1857  Haggerstone, Middlesex, England Son  Shoreditch St Leonard  Middlesex   

 Jane Dunbar abt 1859  Haggerstone, Middlesex, England Daughter  Shoreditch St Leonard  Middlesex   
 
 
 Mary Ann Hutcheson abt 1832  Scotland Sister-in-law  Shoreditch St Leonard  Middlesex   


WEndy
Title: Re: Dunbar Mystery - Shoreditch
Post by: sadie on Friday 30 September 05 22:41 BST (UK)
Thank you - I had his mother as Hutcheson on the birth cert. I wonder why he is a Thomas on the marriage cert to Selina?

Thank you
Title: Re: Dunbar Mystery - Shoreditch
Post by: casalguidi on Friday 30 September 05 22:46 BST (UK)
Hi Sadie

What does it say about her father on Mary Ann's marriage certificate?  Any other useful info on the certificate ie. address/witnesses?

Casalguidi
Title: Re: Dunbar Mystery - Shoreditch
Post by: sadie on Saturday 01 October 05 00:23 BST (UK)
Casalguidi

Mary Ann's mother on the birth cert says Selina Dunbar formerly Harlock.

Thank you

Sadie
Title: Re: Dunbar Mystery - Shoreditch
Post by: sadie on Monday 03 October 05 22:24 BST (UK)
Casalguidi

The witnessess are:
Stephen Vaughn Baxter or Barter
Margaret Dunbar (her mother in law I believe)

The address is:
St Mark, Old Street

Are you able to help?

Sadie
Title: Re: Dunbar Mystery - Shoreditch
Post by: kennyb on Tuesday 04 October 05 16:35 BST (UK)
Just to confuse matters, also in hoxton in 1851 were-
Jane Dunbar 77 Widow, born Scotland.And Dtr
Mary ann   38 Unmarried born Shoreditch.

Was Jane,    Alexander's Mother ? 46 Ashford St HO107/1536 F 70.

                                         KenB ;D
Title: Re: Dunbar Mystery - Shoreditch
Post by: sadie on Tuesday 04 October 05 21:07 BST (UK)
Hi KenB

thanks for the message, you've got me puzzled now.

I do not have Alexander's mother yet, he was born c1817 in Scotland & I have yet to find his birth & being before 1837 my experience is now limited. I believe there is a Scotland site, but will this tell me births before 1837?

It is possible that his mother was Jane, as he named one of his daughters Jane, but this could just be coincidence.

I really appreciate you looking & this could possibly be Alexanders mother . . . my search continues.

Thank you - Sadie
Title: Re: Dunbar Mystery - Shoreditch
Post by: kennyb on Wednesday 05 October 05 01:21 BST (UK)
Hi Sadie,there was a alexander born in scotland 1817.Parents were Robert Dunbar/ Jane Anderson. Info from the IGI.
                                                                               KenB
Title: Re: Dunbar Mystery - Shoreditch
Post by: sadie on Wednesday 05 October 05 10:25 BST (UK)
Hi Ken

Thank you for looking, I think when I last checked I did not have as many facts as I do now.
The family story is that there is a connection to Robert the Bruce, but doesn't everyone!!!

Did you have any thoughts on the name of Selina's husband, I find her with a Joseph on most census's & I have his birth, but the marriage is with a Thomas, see my postings below?

Thank you very much - Sadie
Title: Re: Dunbar Mystery - Shoreditch
Post by: kennyb on Wednesday 05 October 05 19:18 BST (UK)
It's just another mystery,to add to all the rest. ;D
                                                                      Ken.
Title: Re: Dunbar Mystery - Shoreditch
Post by: Bryant on Thursday 10 April 08 09:08 BST (UK)
Hello Sadie

Time for a revamp.........

Can you put some approx birth dates for some of these players.......

when was Mary Ann Dunbar born?

when was the marriage you found and where for Selina Harlock to Thomas Dunbar?

what census have you got Selina Dunbar in?
-------------



1841
FARWIG PLACE, BROMLEY, KENT
JOHN HARTLOCK   25   LAB   N
SELINA      "          25            Y
---------
1840.....DEC QTR....BROMLEY R.D, KENT
JOHN HORLOCK to SELINA VERRELL
---------
*the Verrell's are living next door to John & Selina in 1841 ie Farwig Place, Bromley

1861
1 MORNING LANE, HACKNEY, MIDDX
JOHN HARLOCK                 HEAD  42  WHITESMITH              PIROFEN, DORSET
SELINA    "                        WIFE   44                                    BROMLEY, KENT
WILLIAM  "                        SON    16                                               "
HENRY      "                        SON    7                                       NOT KNOWN, MIDDX
SELINA     "                        DAUR   5                                     PADDINGTON, MIDDX
\
JOHN ROBERT LONG           HEAD   19  MARINER                  BETHNAL GREEN, MIDDX
ELIZABETH        "               WIFE    19                                  BROMLEY, KENT
-----------

1871
19 PRINCES ROAD, HOMERTON, HACKNEY, MIDDX
WILLIAM F HARLOCK       HEAD   52   GAS FITTER                DORSET
SELINA            "              WIFE    53                                     BROMLEY, KENT
ELIZABETH      "              DAUR    28 (UNM)  LAUNDRESS             "
HENRY             "              SON      17 LABOURER                    PADDINGTON, MIDDX
SELINA            "              DAUR     13  SERVANT                            "
ANN VERRELL                MOTHER  79                                     BROMLEY, KENT
JAMES BRIGHTWELL    BOARDER  17   DRAPER                      HOMERTON, MIDDX
------------

Bryant
Title: Re: Dunbar Mystery - Shoreditch
Post by: sadie on Thursday 10 April 08 17:13 BST (UK)
Hi,

Thanks for getting in touch.

Mary Ann Dunbar was born 17 Jul 1878 in Shoreditch.

Selina's marriage to Thomas was on 13 Feb 1873 in Shoreditch, I have the certificate.
Thomas appears as a Joseph in other documents & census's that I have which is odd.
I did find Selina on the 1871 census before she married, living in Hackney. Her mother also a Selina also appeared on this census.

Not sure the one you have is for the same family.

Sadie
Title: Re: Dunbar Mystery - Shoreditch
Post by: Bryant on Thursday 10 April 08 19:07 BST (UK)
Definitely the same family.........different husband (brother?) although it appears they never married? but right family  ;D

see amendments to my previous reply

Bryant
Title: Re: Dunbar Mystery - Shoreditch
Post by: sadie on Thursday 10 April 08 19:22 BST (UK)
Hey that's great.

Have you seen the same issues as me with the Thomas or Joseph Dunbar name?

Which part of the family are you connected to?

Sadie
Title: Re: Dunbar Mystery - Shoreditch
Post by: Bryant on Thursday 10 April 08 19:34 BST (UK)
Hello Sadie

Just an old post to me! not related in any shape or form  :-*

Happy hunting
Bryant
Title: Re: Dunbar Mystery - Shoreditch
Post by: sadie on Thursday 10 April 08 19:59 BST (UK)
Well thank you very much for your help, you have inspired me to pull my finger out & get more hunting done.

Sadie