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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Wicklow => Topic started by: kmdryd on Thursday 29 September 05 14:09 BST (UK)
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Hi All ;D
I have a very big problem....as most people do with Irish records.......does anyone know of records relating to the Rathdrum Workhouse. 1830-1849.
ANY help at all would be very much appreciated. :)
Kathleen
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Kathleen:
Try this for a start. http://www.iol.ie/~libcounc/wicklowsc.htm
Pat
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Kathleen:
Since previous posting, I just found another link here on Rootschat. http://users.ox.ac.uk/~peter/workhouse/
Pat
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Dear Oat
Thank you very much for your time and finding these sites for me ;D ;D
Kathleen
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Hello again ;D
This is further to my original query about Rathdrum workhouse. I have just received info. that a bap. date does indeed exist for my gx2 grandmother. I had nearly given up hope :'( of finding her and unfortunately the family member who has this info. doesn't want to share. >:( Some people just amaze me..anyway, Bridget penrose was born 1833-1834 Wicklow and the details were found in the catholic parish records. I think she came from Ballinderry in Rathdrum but not entirely sure. She would have come from somewhere close to this area. Does anyone have access to these records? or could help me in any way..of finding her bap. date.
Thank you
Kathleen
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Kathleen:
I took a look at the Vital Records Index but no luck. However, after some digging I came across this item about the Irish Orphans sent to Australia. You may already have this but am posting just in case.
http://www.irishfamine.org/names.html
IRISH FAMINE ORPHANS MEMORIAL
HYDE PARK BARRACKS SYDNEY~AUSTRALIA
Penrose Ann, Wicklow
Penrose Bridget, Barraderrie, Wicklow
Penrose Catherine, Wicklow
Another item of possible help is:
Irish orphans
During the Famine in the 1840s a number of Irish orphans from the workhouses were shipped to Australia. Information about these orphans may be found in:
Barefoot and pregnant?: Irish famine orphans in Australia: documents and register / compiled and introduced by Trevor McClaughlin. (FAMHIS 929.102594 1991-2001)
Unnamed Irish boys on convict ships, 1841-1843, sent to Queen's Orphanage, Hobart, Van Diemen's Land / Joyce Purtscher (PAM 929.3946 1993)
Wages paid to orphans index, 1849-1851/ compiled by Aileen Trinder & Pat Stemp.
(MFC 331.21086945 1996)
Contact details:
Family History
State Library of Queensland telephone (07) 3840 7775
PO Box 3488 email genie[AT]slq.qld.gov.au
SOUTH BRISBANE Q 4101
Visit us at website: http://www.slq.qld.gov.au/serv/fh
Hope this is useful.
Pat
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Dear Pat
Thank you very much again for going to so much trouble for me, I do appreciate it. Thanks for the Potato Famine site, I do have the info. but I have not accessed the site before. I gave them the info. and applied for Bridget and her sisters names to be put on the wall and I went to the unveiling of the monument. It was a lovely day and we got to explore Hyde park Barracks again.
I will read the books that you mentioned.
Thank you Pat
Kathleen
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The stone that was erected for the Poorhouse folk in Rathdrum indeed holds only one name and that is of the Co Wicklow Council man who had it erected............there is only one lone stone in that graveyard
and it is for an Anne Byrne ............I have photos should they be needed.
Also the records of baptism that you seek would be with the Rathdrum Parish priest along with the Poorhouse records of burials etc...........I know because I have seen them much to the last parish priests horror ( why I have no idea) after all they dont belong to him they are our ancestors
Cara
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Kathleen:
Try this for a start. http://www.iol.ie/~libcounc/wicklowsc.htm
Pat
Hiya Pat,
Problems here. I tried that first site you mentioned and found a chimpanzee. http://home.iol.ie/common/error/notfound.asp The second site is a good one.
Best Wishes, Chris
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Och Chris, the old evolution thingy must be acting up!!!!
Pat ;D
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Possibly a shortage of razor blades in the Workhouse, Pat :D
I just hope we are not expected to assist with the task of finding his ancestors :D
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Hi Kathleen,
Have just seen your query on the rootschat page re Rathdrum workhouse. From memory there are v. good records for Rathdrum including Indoor Registers.
But perhaps the place to check is www.workhouses.org.uk
It's a brilliant website.
trevor McClaughlin
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Dear Trevor
Thanks so much for your message. I did get onto the site you mentioned but got a bit lost! Can you please "show me the way". I typed in my ancestors name but came up with nothing.
Any help would be very appreciated.
Kathleen
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Dear Kathleen,
I see what you mean--all the links don't work. I recommended Peter Higginbotham's site because it has a list of the records that exist. Normally one would simply type the name of the workhouse you are interested in to the 'search' space currently at the top left hand of the page of www.workhouses.org
Unfortunately the link to Wicklow library doesn't work that well as your previous correspondents noted.
I'd suggest sending an email to Wicklow library asking what records they have for Rathdrum workhouse. I'd do the same for the National Archives of Ireland.
You won't find people's names from the Indoor register (if it exists) online. You'd have to ask a researcher to look for you. You might try the Wicklow family history society.
Incidentally i seem to remember a descendant of Bridget's telling her story in Clann an Ghorta the newsletter for descendants of the famine orphans put out by Terrie Pollard. You might like to send a message to Terrie at rustnastraw1 [AT] yahoo.com
The celebration of the opening of the monument at Hyde park Barracks in Sydney will be 3rd Sept this year. All descendants of the orphan girls are most welcome.
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Hello Trev
Thanks for all the information which I will follow up on.
I have just recently (after I posted my query) been in contact with Eric who is researching Bridget. He sent me some info. and was very helpful. I also subscribe to Clannan Ghorta and was there the day of the dedication to our orphans. I submitted the information about Bridget and her sisters.
When I began I only knew that Bridget was from Wicklow but with the help of Eric and the information I received from a professional researcher, I am narrowing down my research to a certain area. Great news.
Thank you for your reply and interest.
Kathleen
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I too am researching famine orphan girls from Rathdrum Workhouse. Sisters Bridget and Mary Moore (daughters of John and Honor, both deceased) came to Australia on the 'William and Mary', arriving 21 Nov 1849. Bridget, who married William Phillips in Jan 1851, was my great-great-grandmother.
I have not been able to find out anything about any of the family other than what is available via 'Barefoot and Pregnant?' Vol 2 and the Famine Orphan Memorial website. Any additional suggestions/tips/info would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Giuliana in Australia
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not sure if the years fit - but there are a few possible matches for baptisms around the 1830s for Bridget Moore with a fathers name of John on the Irish Family History Foundation website at www.irish-roots.ie - there are 8 in total between 1829 and 1856
The IFHF only hold RC baptism records for Co. Wicklow at the moment and the details are in the form of transcripts which cost €5 each to view.
None seem to be in the Rathdrum parish
Shane
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Thanks for that prompt reply - as you were replying, I was "signing up" to search the IFHF site for Armagh (different part of family) as I couldn't see anything for Wicklow. I'll look more carefully when it's not 12.30am...
Giuliana
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1.20am or not, I think I may have found my Bridget - if Glendalough can be equated with Sevenchurches (and if there are not too many John/Honor combinations...)
Father: John Moore Mother: Honor Bynre
Do you think the Bynre is a typo for Byrne?
I guess I could spend another 5 Euros (min.) and see if I can find the same parent combination for a Mary b abt 1831 in Glendalough.
Thanks for the great tip!
Giuliana
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2.00am update (and 20 Euros later...)
On searching all the Moores born Glendalough 1823-1838 with a father named John, I eliminated all but 4:
Bridget b 1829 - mother Honor Bynre (Byrne?)
Mary b 1831 - mother Honour Moore
Thomas b 1833 - mother Margaret Fraughin
Andrew b 1834 - mother Margret Fraughin
Given that I'm looking for Bridget b 1829 Sevenchurches and Mary born 1831 Sevenchurches, with parents John and Honor, it seems reasonable to conclude that I've found the right family and that there were probably no other children.
Should I be concerned that Honor/Honour is shown as Bynre in 1829 and as Moore in 1831? Is it reasonable to conclude that John and Honor were not married at the time of Bridget's birth but married before Mary's birth?
Any help appreciated!
Giuliana
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I'd never heard of Sevenchurches before, even though I must have passed through it! according to google maps it is about .5 km from Glengalough - see : http://www.rootschat.com/links/06y6/
Rathdrum town is about 12 km south.
I'd be pretty sure that the 'Bynre' entry is just a typo for Byrne
Shane
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Yeehaw! After 12 months of brick wall, I think I've just climbed over, with your invaluable help. Thank you SO much!
G
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there is a book that has been written about rathdrum workhouse.. it can be purchased in shops in arklow
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Thanks Gina. I recently obtained a copy of the book from the author. It has been very helpful, particularly in providing background information. G
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the book is about the history of the rathdrum work house all the way up to st colmans hospital... the name of it is called time did not stand still .. the history of st colmans hospital rathdrum co wicklow wrote by kevin byrne .. i have the book here in front of me.. you could write to them i guess they could get to in contact with the right people.. good luck and hope you find what you are looking for.. and get the book its a good read anyway...
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Arrived on ship William and Mary 21.11.1849
Bridget (16), Esther (17), Ann (19) Penrose the three sister were born on the estate of Bonnabooka, Parish of Kilbride and Bandarrig, Bridget married James Cuppitt of mittagong in 1854 had 15 children. The three sister work for T. Hyland, Queanbeyan
If you go through search eng. google when the box comes up type in Ballycassidy Workhouse then go down page click on Heading- Ships-Victoria Australia Irish Famine Memorial
this site is complied from an article by Trevor McClaughlin "Barefoot and Pregnant"
It mentions the three sister on this site.
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This is for GIULIANA, Bridget (19) Mary (17) from Seven Churches Wicklow, Bridget empl. J. Morrice Ealing Forest, Nr. Berrima married William Philips had 4 children by 1856.
Mary More emply M. Mcphadden Refern 2years.
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Thank you. G
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Don't know if anyone is still chasing Rathdrum Workhouse records but the Wicklow Family History Centre keeps them on behalf of the National Archives. As a result, they don't charge for searches. I was able to trace my great grandfather's admissions as a result. Unfortunately they only go as far as March 1914.
In the 1911 census, 'inmates' were only identified by initials - not sure if this was an attempt to maintain confidentiality or to dehumanise them.
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Oh Yes I am still looking for Rathdrum workhouse records. My family were there in the 1840's. I will try and find the site you suggested. Fingers crossed! Is there anyway that I can purchase the book you mentioned? I live in Australia so I am sure I wouldn't find it here. Can you suggest someone that I can email to order the book?
Thank you
Kathleen
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Hi Kathleen,
Trevor McClaughlin's "Barefoot and Pregnant" books (2 vols) are widely available in Australia - genealogy bookshops and also some libraries. I'd recommend starting with them if you haven't already done so. (I borrowed copies some time ago and found much that I wanted to know about my Bridget Moore as well as lots of general history relevant to the famine orphan girls.) Do you know which ship your ancestor came to Australia on? Do you know what year/s she was in Rathdrum? What name/s are you looking for? (Sorry if you've already provided that info - I haven't looked back through the postings; in a hurry right now!)
Giuliana
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Hi
Thank you for your reply. I do know the ship the girls arrived in. The "William and Mary" 1849. I have been searching for their life in Ireland. I found earlier this year that my 3 sisters had 4 other siblings and just yesterday after being in contact with the Wicklow Family History Centre that there were 2 more siblings. Catherine Wright at the centre was so helpful.
I now think that the 3 sisters were at the Rathdrum Workhouse on their own but don't know for how long. I think their parents died and that is why they were there.
Many searches have been done about the marriages, deaths etc of their siblings in Ireland but nothing can be found unfortunately.
Regards kathleen
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Don't know if anyone is still chasing Rathdrum Workhouse records but the Wicklow Family History Centre keeps them on behalf of the National Archives. As a result, they don't charge for searches. I was able to trace my great grandfather's admissions as a result. Unfortunately they only go as far as March 1914.
In the 1911 census, 'inmates' were only identified by initials - not sure if this was an attempt to maintain confidentiality or to dehumanise them.
I too am interested in the Rathdrum Workhouse but the era I am interested in is late 1916 when I think it was being used as Hospital of some sort, would anyone here know anything of this or are there records available anywhere for this period?
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I understand that the workhouse records for Rathdrum stop at 31st March 1914. I don't know if that's because it became a hospital or because the records are lost. Certainly in April 1914 I have a death certificate still citing the place of death as Rathdrum Union Workhouse.
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Thanks for the Reply,
I have a death cert from 1916 giving the place of death as Rathdrum Hospital, my research has led me to believe that the workhouse was became the hospital but I'm not 100% certain of that.
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The book by Kevin Byrne (published a couple of years ago I think) is called "Time did not stand still", and subtitled "A Revised History of St. Colman’s Hospital, Rathdrum, Co. Wicklow", so yes, what used to be the Rathdrum Workhouse became a hospital.
In the introductory section, it says: "Rathdrum was well known in Co. Wicklow as the site of the Workhouse, or as was it known ‘The County Home’. St. Colman’s is still known to the older generation as; The Home’. Today, however, it is the pride of Co. Wicklow, thanks to the work of Sister Philomena and the Sisters of the Poor Servants of the Mother of God, the staff and especially the community. Credit must also go to the Co. Council and Health Board who responded to the work of the volunteers.
"The Nuns first used the name St. Colman’s when they arrived in 1922 but it was not officially accepted until 1949."
Hope this is helpful.
Giuliana
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That is helpful thank you.
Do you know if the book is still available ?
I assume the patient records for the Hospital would be difficult to access.
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Try emailing Wicklow Family History Centre <wfh[at]eircom.net> who should know. I did have a contact email for the author. If I can find it, I'll post it (it may have been his wife's email, from memory).
The book was written from records of the institution so it includes details of food rations, staff salaries, who died of what, maintenance costs, and a whole lot more. It's not a narrative style, more just groupings of selected facts into categories, plus a few pictures and drawings. Useful for research. In the Acknowledgments, the author writes:
"This book is compiled from the Minutes Books of the Rathdrum Board of Guardians, The Wicklow Co. Health Board records and the various Committees involved in the development of St. Colman’s Hospital. It also contains articles derived from Wicklow People Newspaper reports and the Sisters of the Poor Servants of the Mother of God archives referred to as S.M.G. It has been very difficult to decide what should be included and excluded."
When I get a minute, I'll post some info from the Table of Contents that may be helpful, showing which of the ships that left for Australia contained Rathdrum orphans. G
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The staff of the Wicklow Family History Centre will do other, more detailed research on your behalf for a fee. See their website to learn about their service, sources and fees:
www.wicklow.ie/famillyhistorycentre
When I inquired they had quite a backlog of work and estimated it would be 3 months before they would get to my enquiry, but that probably changes with peaks and troughs from time to time.
G
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Kevin Byrne (elsewhere O'Byrne) lists in his book the emigrants from Rathdrum (of more than 4000 in total) who left for Australia on the following ships under the Irish Famine Orphan scheme:
the Thomas Arbuthnot sailed 19 Oct 1849
the Jane Avery (no date obvious to me)
the Agenora sailed 10 Jun 1851
the New Brunswick sailed 20 May 1854
the William and Mary arrived in the Colony 21 Nov 1849
I think these are identical to those in the 'Barefoot and Pregnant' books. Mostly it's just a list of paupers' names (with ages and name of workhouse), but for the William and Mary other details are provided (e.g. parents' names, religion and town of origin). I'm happy to do lookups for these if that's helpful to anyone (BUT SEE LATER POSTING - LISTS ARE ALL AVAILABLE ONLINE).
G
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In Australia there are several regular public commemorations of the arrival of the Irish Famine girls, organised by the Great Irish Famine Commemoration Committee.
In Sydney this occurs annually in August (usually the last weekend) at the Famine Orphan memorial in the grounds of Hyde Park Barracks (a wonderful memorial for anyone to visit!).
There is a function coming up in Melbourne next weekend, Sun 21 Nov, at 2.30pm at the Famine Rock on the Strand, Williamstown (the water's edge end, cnr Stevedore St). For further info, contact Debra at (*)
G
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I've just had another look around the Irish Famine Memorial (Sydney) website and found that they've included lists of all the Irish Famine Orphan girls who came to Australia (taken from the 'Barefoot and Pregnant?' books) so I don't need to do lookups after all!
There are 3 separate links, depending on which State the orphans were sent to:
http://www.irishfaminememorial.org/orphans/ships_nsw.htm (for New South Wales/Sydney)
http://www.irishfaminememorial.org/orphans/ships_vic.htm (for Victoria/Melbourne)
http://www.irishfaminememorial.org/orphans/ships_sa.htm (for South Australia/Adelaide)
Sorry I'd forgotten that these were available. G
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Some of the stuff that WIcklow Family History Centre can access for you (for a fee) is also on the rootsireland.ie website. From what I remember the index searches are free, but you pay to download the full transcription. I managed to extract an awful lot of starting information from rootsireland by methodically going through the whole alphabet and searching. That helped me to narrow down which I then paid for.
I have also had a big breakthrough on my irish relatives (Sennett/Sinnott), but it came by actually being able to go to Wicklow and Dublin. First to the Wicklow family history centre where the woman there did an initial free search on the two children I was pretty sure were born there that I had approximate years for. That came up trumps, and I then went and spent two days in the National Library in Dublin searching laboriously through microfilm. The big thing that I only realised after I had left ireland (having not been able to go more than one generation back) was that I had assumed that my ancestors were catholic, when it would appear that the generation to leave ireland was the first generation of catholic males of that surname - it seems the male head of family probably converted when he married his catholic wife. It was only after I came back and started checking rootsireland that I discovered his birth, and that of his brothers, in the Church of Ireland registers. Oh well, if only I'd thought of that possibility then! It will just mean another trip to Ireland!
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Any excuse for another trip to Ireland, I reckon! G
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I have jsut noticed a copy of Kevin Byrne's Book "Time did not stand still" the history of St Colman's Hospital Rathdrum Workhouse, Co Wicklow on eBay
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Thank you kevin boy, I will jump on ebay immediately!
Kathleen
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I just found about 58000 books on ebay!!
Do you know the category you were looking under? Pleeeeese.
Kathleen
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HI
this the link. other than that enter Rathdrum thats how i found it the second time
http://books.shop.ebay.co.uk/?_from=R40&_trksid=p3984.m570.l1313&_nkw=rathdrum&_sacat=267
good luck
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Hi
Thank you so much for web site. I got onto it straight away and I have put a bid on it. But I am going away tonight for 5 days and the auction ends in 3 days but I was the only bidder so I might have a chance. I will send message to owner and let them know if I win the book I will pay when I get home.
Thanks again.
kathleen