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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Flintshire => Topic started by: Matthew Clark on Saturday 28 February 26 22:03 GMT (UK)
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Dear All ,
Sorry I'm posting here! I need your help! I'm having great difficulty finding where my 7th GG was born. I proudly have 18% Welsh DNA from the line of my GGG Rosa Louisa Jones 1852-1934. However Rosa going back 5 generations all born in Surrey until Robert Jones ? - 1774 Welsh born MP , Director of East India Company / Wine merchant. He purchased Babraham Estate in Cambridgeshire. It would be lovely to be able to know more. I went on the English end of Rootschat and they recommended I ask here. Also Flintshire was mentioned in the family somewhere? Any help most welcome!
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https://www.historyofparliamentonline.org/volume/1754-1790/member/jones-robert-1774
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Hi,
Can I just confirm that you traced back to Robert (d.1774) yourself using primary sources (i.e. records of baptism, marriage and burial, wills, land records), and not online trees? Some of them seem very dodgy, and I am not quite sure about the veracity...
For example, they have Thomas Jones who was buried in Chertsey in 1826 aged 87, giving him an estimated year of birth of 1739, as being baptised in London to Robert and Jane Jones, but there is also a Thomas Jones baptised in 1740 in Chertsey to father John, so why this jump from London? Where is the evidence for this as opposed to the most logical baptism being the Chertsey one?
Also, was this Thomas the one who married Sarah West in Chertsey in 1762? If so, he signed by mark, and a son of an M.P. would have almost certainly been fully literate.
Maybe I'm missing something (it is rather late!) but I just wanted to confirm.
Queenie :)
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https://www.british-history.ac.uk/vch/cambs/vol6/pp19-30
A History of the County of Cambridge and the Isle of Ely: Volume 6 states that "Another sale was postponed in 1767, (fn. 85) and Babraham was eventually bought in 1770 by Robert Jones, an East India Company director. (fn. 86) Jones's only child Anne married Col. James Whorwood Adeane, and to their son, Robert Jones Adeane, Jones devised Babraham on his death in 1774. (fn. 87).
So there is no evidence he had a son Thomas in Chertsey, nor that his surname was carried forward by his descendants.
Queenie :)
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I am not sure how you have linked link Rosa Louisa Jones 1852-1934 with Welsh MP Robert Jones 1704-1774.
https://www.historyofparliamentonline.org/volume/1754-1790/member/jones-robert-1774
BIOGRAPHICAL INFORMATION
He had a daughter, but as his daughter had married J. W. Adeane without his approval, so he made his grandson Robert Jones Adeane his heir.
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The marriage (by licence) register reads
"James Whorwood Adeane, Esq, of the Parish of St Marylebone and Anne Adeane, heretofore Jones of the same Parish, a minor, by and with the consent of Robert Jones, Esq, the natural and lawful father of the said minor ..."
They married 4 Mar 1763
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There are a couple of entries on Anc* which refer to Whorwood Adeane having issue with Anne, one qualified with a ".... probably ...". Mentioned are James, died in infancy 1770 and Dorothy, bap/born 1782 who went on to marry.
Anne, born 1747, dau of Robert Jones, Esq.
The plot thickens.
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The grandson that inherited was bap 18 Nov 1763 at The Church of St Mary the Virgin, Church Road, Twickenham.
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There's a baptismal entry (Anc image) for the Parish of Chalgrove, Oxford of a
Dorothy Adeane, 20 Aug 1782 - it does not show parents.
The entry, along with half a dozen others without parents named, is qualified with a marginal note that reads
"The register of the annexed ? baptisms beginning with Rich'd Nilsden is copied from Mr Torkic's memorandum"
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There's a James Adeane tablet on Findagrave, buried 25 Sep 1770, Chalgrove. The entry above is for a Simon Whorwood Adeane, buried 13 Nov 1760.
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Have confused 2 x Whorwood Adeanes (who married an Anne) from Charles Herbert Mayo's 1908 (2nd Edition) "A Genealogical Account of the Mayo and Elton Families .....".
The entry for James Whorwood who married Anne, Robert Jones' daughter, states " ... he had issue ..." but doesn't specify.
Anne Adeane, 86 (b. about 1746) buried 22 Jun 1832, Babraham.
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Thank you very much for all your help everybody! I think I have made the mistake before checking and checking again! Therefore I believe I've gone down the wrong line that has nothing to do with me! All I have is my GG Grandmother Rosa Louisa Jones 1852-1934 and her father my GGG Grandfather George Jones 1829-1885 born Chertsey , Surrey and died Addlestone , Surrey. How I get back to where my 18% Welsh DNA comes from I have no idea! :(
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Are we starting with the Birth registration of -
Rosa Louisa Jones, Jun Qtr 1852, Chertsey, 2a 25 - mother's maiden name Sheet
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Hello hanes ,
Yes mother's name is Rosa Skeet.
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The 1849 marriage is on line - father Richard Jones, broomaker? Rosa Skeet's father is James, gardener.
Added - Rosa is a minor?
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Baptism (image/transcript)
George Jones, born 23 Nov 1828, bap 21 Dec 1828, father Richard, broom maker, mother Charlotte, baptismal place Chertsey St Peter, abode Chertsey
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That's wonderful thank you very much! How far does the Jones line go back do you think? Your so quick thank you again! It would be marvellous to see if the line goes back to Wales? :)
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Baptism (image/transcript)
Richard Jones, 27 Jul 1794, baptismal place St Peter, Chertsey, parents Richard and Sarah
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This is amazing! So grateful to you! I have struggled with the Jones line for ages! :)
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The findings linked by the "broom maker" occupation look good - but no guarantee.
Going further back than the 1828 baptism is not delivering. You'll appreciate the paucity/lack of information on these records makes it very, very difficult.
Time for a break.
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I'm delighted! Yes take a well earned break! Of course I understand thank you very very much indeed! :)
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Next step is searching for "Jones the Brush" in either "Chertsey Isaf" or "Chertsey Uchaf".
regards
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Check the 1841 Census for Chertsey -
Richard, age 75, Ind (born in County) and Sarah, age 80, (not born in County). Note - 1841 ages were rounded down to nearest 0 or 5. There are 2 Chertsey burials that "fit" this pair. Unfortunately, both passed away before 1851 Census,
Richard, age 47, broom maker, (born in County) and Charlotte, 44, (born in County). With them is George, age 12. Note - these ages haven't been rounded down.
Had you identified these as your ancestors before hitting on "Jones the MP" as possible ancestor?
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Check the 1841 Census for Chertsey -
Richard, age 47, broom maker, (born in County) and Charlotte, 44, (born in County). With them is George, age 12. Note - these ages haven't been rounded down.
In 1851 Richrd Jones Broom 58 maker born Chertsey is living in Addlestone with son William and family.
The 1861 census Chertsey
George Jones (head) with Rosa his wife
His father – Richard, 68, broom maker is living with them.
Burial at Guildford – Richard Jones of Chertsey, age 68
Richard JONES marriage 13 Aug 1814 Chertsey to Charlotte HOWARD
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Richard JONES marriage 13 Aug 1814 Chertsey to Charlotte HOWARD
Children baptised Chertsey – (father a broom maker)
• Charlotte 1815
• Elizabeth 1817
• Richard 1819
• James 1823
• William 1826
• George 1828
• Sarah 1830
• Harriett 1833
• Edward 1836
• Stephen 1838
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Baptism (image/transcript)
Richard Jones, 27 Jul 1794, baptismal place St Peter, Chertsey, parents Richard and Sarah
Richard Jones, 75 and Sarah Jones, 80
are in the 1841 census in Chertsey, Gogmore Lane
Burial 1841 Guildford – Sarah Jones of Chertsey, age 75
Burial 1847 Guildford – Richard Jones of Chertsey, age 85
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Baptism (image/transcript)
Richard Jones, 27 Jul 1794, baptismal place St Peter, Chertsey, parents Richard and Sarah
Richard Jones, 75 and Sarah Jones, 80
are in the 1841 census in Chertsey, Gogmore Lane
Burial 1841 Guildford – Sarah Jones of Chertsey, age 75
Burial 1847 Guildford – Richard Jones of Chertsey, age 85
That's the "fit" I was alluding to at reply #22 - glad you saw it the same.
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RICHARD/SARAH only seem to bapt these children Chertsey;
RICHARD 27 Jul 1794 as already found
MARY 09 Jan 1797
ELIZABETH 13 Jan 1799
MARY 25 Aug 1802
SAMUEL 16 Nov 1803
All above on FreeREG;
I did note that FreeREG only has bapts/burials transcribed so far to 1838.
Only 3 1600's marriages;
Baptisms (100 of them) go back to 1623
Burials (71 of them) go back to 1627/8
So tha name Jones goes way back in Chertsey.
It may be the female line is the Welsh one?
Trish :)
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Dear Trish , Hanes & Neale ,
Thank you so very much for all your help! I have asked Mum about the Jones side and if everything points towards Chertsey / Addlestone that all makes sense as family all from there. So the Welsh DNA is certainly odd? Trish I have looked down maternal side and they are all from the above area or environs. Welsh handed down from both grandparents and checked this with no welsh or border county ancestors either on paternal side evidently. So perhaps going back beyond 200 year point and old celtic / english dna is being registered?
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I am no expert on DNA.
I have 6 percent Cornish in my DNA and have no idea how that connects to my Tree.
Hopefully someone else can help.
Trish :)
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Morning Trish ,
Isn't it confusing! I think sometimes on the other side of the coin it's rather lovely that we're all kept guessing! Again many thanks for helping me!
Matthew :)
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Your welcome Matthew.
Yes it keeps us guessing for sure.
All the best :)