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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Yorkshire (North Riding) => Topic started by: Cnthree3 on Saturday 28 February 26 16:58 GMT (UK)

Title: Missing 20 years - William Brignall
Post by: Cnthree3 on Saturday 28 February 26 16:58 GMT (UK)
Can anyone help me find out where William Brignall was between 1861 and 1891.

William Brignall born Loftus Yorkshire about 1836
Baptised 18th Dec 1936 Loftus
Parents Thomas Brignall 186 - 1882 and Jane Agar 1811 - 1901
1851 Aged 14 William was working in the mines as an Alum Labourer along side his father. In 1861, aged 24 william had left home and was lodging with John and Bessy Cook  in Bilsdale Kirkham, working as a Miner.
In 1891 William was married to Jane and living in Arthur Fields Loftus, with 2 grandchildren Ethel M Duck and William George Duck.
In 1901 William and Jane were living with three grandchildren William, Arthur, Ernest Duck. Note Arthur was born in Bolton, not Loftus like his siblings.

I can not trace a marriage record for him and Jane, nor 1871 and 1881 census records.
His daughter Mary Jane Brignall 1863 - 1923 did not show her father's name on her (1882) wedding record to omas Duck) - but her mother's - Mary Jane Brignall, suggesting they were very much estranged - however he was looking after her children when she was widowed.

Can you help me find William in this 20 year period? Many thanks for any help.
Title: Re: Missing 20 years - William Brignall
Post by: rosie99 on Saturday 28 February 26 17:16 GMT (UK)
In 1881 he is transcribed as Bugnall living in Lofthouse

William   44   occ   Ironstone miner   bn Loftus
Jane      47   bn    Loftus
Hannah E   Daughter   18   bn   Loftus
Mary J   Daughter   17   bn Robin Hood Bay

RG11
Piece  4838
Folio 62
Page 53
Title: Re: Missing 20 years - William Brignall
Post by: rosie99 on Saturday 28 February 26 17:29 GMT (UK)
Arthurs birth reg
DUCK, ARTHUR  TYERMAN     mmn BRIGNALL 
GRO Reference: 1892  June Quarter
BOLTON reg dist
Volume 08C  Page 448
 
Title: Re: Missing 20 years - William Brignall
Post by: CaroleW on Saturday 28 February 26 17:30 GMT (UK)
Grandson William George birth reg 1882 shows mmn as Bignall - not Brignall
Title: Re: Missing 20 years - William Brignall
Post by: CaroleW on Saturday 28 February 26 17:31 GMT (UK)
Mary Jane Brignall married Thomas Duck 1882 - see freebmd
Title: Re: Missing 20 years - William Brignall
Post by: rosie99 on Saturday 28 February 26 17:41 GMT (UK)
Is this them as Agar in 1871
William Agar   36   occ Iron stone miner   bn Lofthouse
Jane   Agar      37   bn   Lofthouse
Hannah E   Agar   Daughter   8   bn Lofthouse
Mary J   Agar   Daughter   6   bn Whitby
Fanny   Agar   Daughter   4   bn Whitby

RG10
Piece  4851
Folio 26
Page 46
Title: Re: Missing 20 years - William Brignall
Post by: Cnthree3 on Saturday 28 February 26 20:06 GMT (UK)
In 1881 he is transcribed as Bugnall living in Lofthouse

William   44   occ   Ironstone miner   bn Loftus
Jane      47   bn    Loftus
Hannah E   Daughter   18   bn   Loftus
Mary J   Daughter   17   bn Robin Hood Bay

RG11
Piece  4838
Folio 62
Page 53

thank you so very much for this information - I have corrected the spelling on Ancestry. This is a great find. Thank you for taking the time to search for this
Title: Re: Missing 20 years - William Brignall
Post by: amondg on Saturday 28 February 26 20:24 GMT (UK)
FreeBMD   - imagine written as heard or a transcription error

William Breadnall married Jane Brown reg Guisborough 1852, June quarter vol 9d page 646
Title: Re: Missing 20 years - William Brignall
Post by: amondg on Saturday 28 February 26 20:49 GMT (UK)
Re 1871 Census

William Agar  24 married Jane Wood age 26 on 18 May 1861 Stokesley   - image on ancestry

He does not list a father, her father is George Wood

GRO Index
Mary Jane Agar reg. Whitby 1864 mother's maiden name WOOD

Fanny Agar reg  1867 Whitby mother's maiden name WOOD  - dies 1873 age 5


ADDED
Hannah Eliza Agar reg Guisborough 1861 mother's maiden name WOOD
Title: Re: Missing 20 years - William Brignall
Post by: Cnthree3 on Saturday 28 February 26 21:17 GMT (UK)
ThanksYou - however the Agar's are the maternal side of the family - and not the william I am trying to trace which is William Brignall born Loftus Yorkshire about 1836. Thanks to Rosie99 for finding him in 1881 - I had wondered if he had been in prison - with his daughter  Mary Jane Brignall 1863 - 1923 not showing  her father's name on her (1882) wedding record to Thomas Duck) - but her mother's - Mary Jane Brignall, suggesting they were very much estranged. I have never seen a mother named on a marriage record like that before. Im still trying to trace his marriage to a Jane / Mary Jane and in 1871. Thanks very much for your help so far
Title: Re: Missing 20 years - William Brignall
Post by: amondg on Saturday 28 February 26 22:03 GMT (UK)
True, but it is odd the children's names and ages are the same in 1871 and 1881.

Could he have used his mother's maiden name in 1871?
Title: Re: Missing 20 years - William Brignall
Post by: rosie99 on Saturday 28 February 26 22:23 GMT (UK)
William was baptised 18th December 1836 - his parents Thomas Brignall & Jane Agar.  Thomas & Jane did not marry until 1837 so he was the illegitimate son of Jane Agar
Title: Re: Missing 20 years - William Brignall
Post by: amondg on Sunday 01 March 26 01:49 GMT (UK)
1881 Census
His daughter Hannah E (Eliza) is 18 [born 1861] Mary Jane is 17 [born 1864]

Fanny born 1867 has died 1873.

The witness at the marriage to Thomas Duck 11 March 1882 is Annie Eliza Brignall her sister Hannah Eliza who went by the name Annie.

So the parents marriage would be circa 1861 - William Agar to Jane Wood. _He was illegitimate

**William Brignall who died 28 June 1909 left a will, he was of 32 Tees Street, Loftus, Yorkshire. Executors are George Brignall, Mines Deputy and William George Duck, grocer's assistant.
Ref: Probate Index

Perhaps the will can provide further clues.
 
His wife Jane had died 1904.


 
Title: Re: Missing 20 years - William Brignall
Post by: Cnthree3 on Sunday 01 March 26 05:20 GMT (UK)
1881 Census
His daughter Hannah E (Eliza) is 18 [born 1861] Mary Jane is 17 [born 1864]

Fanny born 1867 has died 1873.

The witness at the marriage to Thomas Duck 11 March 1882 is Annie Eliza Brignall her sister Hannah Eliza who went by the name Annie.

So the parents marriage would be circa 1861 - William Agar to Jane Wood. _He was illegitimate

**William Brignall who died 28 June 1909 left a will, he was of 32 Tees Street, Loftus, Yorkshire. Executors are George Brignall, Mines Deputy and William George Duck, grocer's assistant.
Ref: Probate Index

Perhaps the will can provide further clues.
 
His wife Jane had died 1904.

This makes total sense now - i knew he was illegitimate but never thought he would have used is mothers name - thank you very much - this is so helpful and really helps me understand. I very much appreciate your time on this.