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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: awats179 on Wednesday 25 February 26 05:07 GMT (UK)
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Hi all,
I've been trying to research my ancestor, John Jones. On his marriage certificate his birthplace is listed as Manchester, Lancashire, England. In 1887 his listed at 41 making his birth date around that 1846 +/- 2. His parents are listed as James Jones and Elizabeth Brown. I've found 2 John Jones that are born in 1842 and one in 1844. Both with the mother maiden name as Brown! in the same place as well: Hulme. I also found their baptism records at the Collegiate, Manchester, Lancashire cathedral. Both sets of parents have the same names. I've tried to find the families in the 1841 census so I can distinguish but can not locate them. I did find a James Jones and Elizabeth Brown in the 1851 census. There children are as listed:
Edith Jones 17
Mary Ann Jones 15
Elizabeth Jones 11
John Jones 6
James Jones 1
I have found these names in the baptism registers at the same cathedral, but there are also a number of other Jones children with the same parents.
Note: John migrated to Australia in 1876.
Can anyone help me find my John Jones or find the family in the 1841 or other census?
Kind regards, Adriana
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1841? Living in Deansgate, Manchester
James Jones 30 Cotton Weaver
Elizabeth Jones 25
Edith Jones 8
Mary Jones 6
Elizabeth Jones 2
Edith Jones 60
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Have you tried using the GROBirth Index to check which child had the mothers maiden name Brown https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/Login.asp Free to register and use I can't access it from this computor
Added - Sorry from rereading your post you already used this to find their mother's maiden name was Brown
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I think the 1842 and 1844 births you found in the GRO Birth Index are for the same family and the earlier John died the year he was born.
Possibly death for the first John
JONES, JOHN 0
GRO Ref: 1842 Sept Qrtr CHORLTON Vol 20 Page 174
I had a look at both birth certs on the Birth Index - parents James and Elizabeth Jones (mn Brown) - addresses on both certs were listed as 65 Silver St Hulme - the address where the family you posted were living in 1851. On the 1844 birth cert the birth date is listed as 8 June 1844 and the father James was a Green grocer
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1841? Living in Deansgate, Manchester
James Jones 30 Cotton Weaver
Elizabeth Jones 25
Edith Jones 8
Mary Jones 6
Elizabeth Jones 2
Edith Jones 60
For info. this could be the baptism for James
James Jones Birth 10 Oct 1808
Baptism 21 May 1809 Manchester, St Mary, St Denys and St George
Father John Jones Mother Edith
The 1851 census mentioned address 65 Silver St.
James Jones born c1809 Manchester occ green grocer
Is this the same James 1861
James Jones Lodger Widr. Age 50 born Manchester occ grocer
1861 c Piece 2803 Folio 5 Page number 4
1841? Living in Deansgate, Manchester
James Jones 30 Cotton Weaver
Elizabeth Jones 25
Edith Jones 8
Mary Jones 6
Elizabeth Jones 2
Edith Jones 60
Possible marriages
1879 to John Henry Thomason
Edith Hesketh 44 father James Jones occ spinner
One witness Mary Ann Meadowcroft
Edith Hesketh Birth 6 May 1860
Baptism 31 Mar 1861 Hulme, St George, Lancashire,
Father Thomas Mother Edith late Jones,m, at S. Simons Salford 1853
1854 to Joseph Meadowcroft
Mary Ann Jones 19 father James Jones occ spinner
Images to view on Anc*y
Added
John Jones Birth 17 May 1842
Baptism 17 Jul 1842 Manchester, St Mary, St Denys and St George
Father James occ spinner Mother Elizabeth
John Jones Birth 8 Jun 1844
Baptism 21 Jul 1844 Manchester, Lancashire
Father James occ spinner Mother Elizabeth abode Hulme
I think the 1842 and 1844 births you found in the GRO Birth Index are for the same family and the earlier John died the year he was born.
Possibly death for the first John
JONES, JOHN 0
GRO Ref: 1842 Sept Qrtr CHORLTON Vol 20 Page 174
I had a look at both birth certs on the Birth Index - parents James and Elizabeth Jones (mn Brown) - addresses on both certs were listed as 65 Silver St Hulme - the address where the family you posted were living in 1851.
On the 1844 birth cert the birth date is listed as 8 June 1844 and the
father James was a Green grocer
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I've been trying to research my ancestor, John Jones. On his marriage certificate his birthplace is listed as Manchester, Lancashire, England.
When and who did John marry?
What occupation was given for John and his father?
Who witnessed the marriage?
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Thank you for all your help.
It does make sense if the two John Jones are in fact from the same family. Are you able to provide the links to these census record as when I search for them, I get no results. Not too sure why.
Edith Hesketh? From the census records I can see an Edith Jones born around 1835. Could you please explain what you mean?
Kay99, you said you viewed the birth certificates? Was this on ancestry?
John married in 1887 QLD to Ellen spooner (who is quite a mystery herself, I believe I have previous thread on here regarding Ellen).
John's occupation is listed as a miner and his father a greengrocer which matches those census records.
Witness are Charles Herbert Brerenlow and Edward Underwood.
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Apologies- I was going round in circles and ended up getting the digital images of the birth certs off the GRO Birth Index which hopefully are attached below
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This is hopefully a link to the possible 1841 census for James Jones and family on Anc
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01u8u/
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And the James Jones widower in 1861 that Ladyhawk found http://www.rootschat.com/links/01u8v/
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Possible marriages
1879 to John Henry Thomason
Edith Hesketh 44 father James Jones occ spinner
One witness Mary Ann Meadowcroft
Edith Hesketh Birth 6 May 1860
Baptism 31 Mar 1861 Hulme, St George, Lancashire,
Father Thomas Mother Edith late Jones,m, at S. Simons Salford 1853
1854 to Joseph Meadowcroft
Mary Ann Jones 19 father James Jones occ spinner
Images to view on Anc*y
I think the 1879 marriage of an Edith Hesketh to John Henry Thomason relates to James Jones daughter Edith Jones b about 1835 as the marriage cert lists her as age 44. Although the cert also lists her as a spinster I think she may have been previously married to Thomas Hesketh in 1853
as below from the LancashireBMD https://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/marriagesearch.ph
Thomas Hesketh Edith Jones 1853 Salford St Simon Salford
Added 1881 Edith and John Henry Thomason living in Hulme
John Hy. Thomasson 44 b Manchester
Edith Thomasson 46 Wife b Manchester
Sarah Jane Charles 23 Boarder
Maria Hopwood 36 Boarder
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John married in 1887 QLD to Ellen spooner (who is quite a mystery herself, I believe I have previous thread on here regarding Ellen).
John's occupation is listed as a miner and his father a greengrocer which matches those census records.
Witness are Charles Herbert Brerenlow and Edward Underwood.
Thanks Kay99 for adding the extra details of 1861 census for John Jones grocer
Thanks awats179 for the marriage details - was John Jones married previously?
edit added the link to awats179 previous thread for Ellen Spooner
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=874186.0
I did find a James Jones and Elizabeth Brown in the 1851 census.
There children are as listed:
Edith Jones 17
Mary Ann Jones 15
Elizabeth Jones 11
John Jones 6
James Jones 1
Note: John migrated to Australia in 1876.
Did James & Elizabeth have another child after 1851 census or is this a different couple :-\- not found this George on 1861 census ???
1851 Nov 5 George son of James occ green grocer & Elizabeth late BROWN m. at Cathederal 1849 abode Silver St., Hulme
Image available to view https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QK14-PHHW?lang=en
His birth registration
JONES, GEORGE mmn BROWN
GRO Reference: 1851 D Quarter in CHORLTON Volume 20 Page 224
Lancashire OPC https://www.lan-opc.org.uk/Search/indexp.html has following transcription for
James Jones & Elizabeth Brown marriage 1833 Collegiate Manchester
James occ spinner
They also have following baptisms in Collegiate Manchester parents named as James & Elizabeth
1836 Mary Ann father occ spinner abode Manchr.
1837 Edith father occ spinner abode Manchr.
1838 James father occ spinner abode Manchr.
1839 Elizabeth father occ spinner abode Manchr.
1842 John father occ spinner abode Manchr. >>>>>died 1842 b/c provided by kay99
1844 John father occ spinner abode Hulme >>>>>> ditto
These baptisms same parents names different occ. for father James
1846 James father occ Grocer abode Hulme
1851 George father occ green grocer abode Silver St., Hulme
(this was address on b/c for James & Elizabeth sons John Jones also living there in 1851
details posted by Kay99)
1861 census James Jones, widr. occ grocer found lodging on his own (details posted)
Marriages of some of James’ children transcribed on Lancashire OPC
1854 Joseph Meadowcroft to Mary Ann Jones her fathers occ spinner
1879 John Henry Thomason to Edith Hesketh (says spinster was married previously see Kay99 post) father occ spinner (Edith's married sister Mary A Meadowcroft was a witness) - details posted
There is a pedigree tree on family search with the above George Jones listed
you would need to verify all the info. given it also lists
John Jones b1844 died 17 Sept. 1904 Charters Towers Queensland
married Rosannah Corbett b1857 died 9 Feb 1884 Townsville Queensland
https://www.familysearch.org/en/tree/pedigree/portrait/27LR-FT3
Rosanna Jones arrived 1876 Australia aboard Gauntlet
https://www.familysearch.org/en/tree/person/sources/LYBH-VR1
There is also a public tree entry on Anc*y but on his death cert father is JOHN not JAMES :-\
have listed some of the details
again info. needs to be verified - here's the link if you have access to Anc*y
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01u8y/
John Jones 30 Rosanna Jones 20 sailed from London on Gauntlet 18 Sept
Marriage John & Rosannah 23 Jul 1875 Manchester (no image) >>>>>>>>>not finding a Jones/Corbett 1875 marriage entry on FreeBMD ???
1904 Australian death cert for John Jones parents JOHN Jones, miner mother Eliza BROWN
1904 death John Jones http://www.rootschat.com/links/01u8x/
Also says his son James Normanby Jones died 7 January 1921 Queensland
father John mother Johannah Corbett
Find a grave burial John Jones born c1844 d1904
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/184520970/john-jones
I will take a further look when I have more time
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We know James & Elizabeth’s daughters Edith & Mary Ann married and they can be found on 1861 census
Mary Ann Meadowcroft (nee Jones) has 3 children by 1861c
Elizabeth age 4, Elizah age 2 & Lucy age 6 months
3 more by 1871c
William age 8 Thomas age 3 & Sarah age 1
Edith Hesketh (nee Jones) has 2 children by 1861c
James L(ee) age 6 & Edith a 11 months
1873 marriage of James Lee Hesketh age 22 witnesses were Joseph & Mary Ann Meadowcroft
Found a possible marriage for Elizabeth dau of James & Elizabeth
20 th April 1857 Joseph Thompson 28, carder
Elizabeth Jones 17, 2 Well Street Hulme
father James Jones, Green Grocer
Joseph & Elisabeth have a son George W Thompson age 1 on 1861 census living 2 Well Street
If we have the correct James Jones, grocer on 1861 census he is a widow - when and where did his wife Elizabeth Jones (nee Brown) die
and
Where are these Jones children in 1861?
John born c1844, James born c1846 & possibly George Jones born c1850
none are with their married sisters Edith, Mary Ann or Elizabeth on 1861 census
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Hi, thank you for all your help.
John did have a previous wife, Rosannah Corbett. I haven't been able to find their marriage record.
And yes, I have seen John jones death cert. 1904. I do believe the name is wrong as is the amount of time he had been in Qld.
I do think George Jones born in 1851 is a part of this jones family....is it possible they may have encountered poverty after the death of Elizabeth Brown? I might look into workhouse records for them.