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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Donegal => Topic started by: Joan Benson on Saturday 21 February 26 10:59 GMT (UK)

Title: Matilda Stevenson born about 1881 - is father James or Isaac
Post by: Joan Benson on Saturday 21 February 26 10:59 GMT (UK)
Hello, I am looking for information on Matilda Stevenson who married Charles McKinney on 1st January 1901 in St Eugenes, Derry. Matilda was working at the City Hotel.
Matilda is on both the 1901 and 1911 censuses with a approximate birth of 1881 in County Donegal.
I have an Irish genealogy record of the marriage that states Matilda’s father is a policeman named James and a newspaper cutting that states his name is Isaac. I’m trying to confirm Matilda’s father’s name and where Matilda was born.
Thank you in advance for any help.
Title: Re: Matilda Stevenson born about 1881 - is father James or Isaac
Post by: Kiltaglassan on Saturday 21 February 26 11:49 GMT (UK)

Just adding the URL link for the 1911 census in Londonderry.
Osborne Street (Londonderry Urban (1), Londonderry)
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Londonderry/Londonderry_Urban__1_/Osborne_Street/601497/

Married 10 years, five children born, four still living.
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai002841528/

At the moment, can't see any Matilda Stevenson's born in Co Donegal.

Added:
Marriage 1 January 1901
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/marriage_returns/marriages_1901/10299/5748857.pdf


Title: Re: Matilda Stevenson born about 1881 -
Post by: Joan Benson on Saturday 21 February 26 12:12 GMT (UK)
Thank you.

I have just noticed that in addition to difference in father’s name, marriage record states Charles McKinney is a labourer and newspaper report states he is a butcher.

I couldn’t find any births or a potential marriage for her parents.
Title: Re: Matilda Stevenson born about 1881 - is father James or Isaac
Post by: ColC on Saturday 21 February 26 12:15 GMT (UK)
On https://www.irishgenealogy.ie, there are 3 birth registrations for a Matilda Stevenson 1879-1883. None show the fathers name as James or Isaac.

Districts (Civil records)
Belfast (1) Donegal (1) Kilkenny (1)

Colin
Title: Re: Matilda Stevenson born about 1881 - is father James or Isaac
Post by: Joan Benson on Saturday 21 February 26 12:28 GMT (UK)
Thank you.

Those were the only births I could find too.

I have checked all the main sites, do you know if I pay for a subscription to Roots Ireland etc, am I likely to find more records?
Title: Re: Matilda Stevenson born about 1881 -
Post by: Kiltaglassan on Saturday 21 February 26 12:35 GMT (UK)

I have just noticed that in addition to difference in father’s name, marriage record states Charles McKinney is a labourer and newspaper report states he is a butcher.

On his marriage record he was a labourer. On the 1901 census he was a butcher's assistant and on 1911 a butcher.
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai000631110/


Title: Re: Matilda Stevenson born about 1881 - is father James or Isaac
Post by: Joan Benson on Saturday 21 February 26 15:23 GMT (UK)
Thank you.

I’m totally stuck now which record is correct and I can’t find Matilda before she married or anything convincing on either James or Isaac being her father.
Title: Re: Matilda Stevenson born about 1881 - is father James or Isaac
Post by: aghadowey on Saturday 21 February 26 19:19 GMT (UK)
Two possibilities for you to consider.
1) My husband's grandmother was Matilda and her relatives were Stevenson except the name was earlier Stephens so that her birth registration and marriage were Stephens but her baptisms (as an infant) was Stevenson.
2) have you considered this birth? The name, age and father's occupation seem to match although the father's Christian name and location don't.
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1881/02840/2040903.pdf
Title: Re: Matilda Stevenson born about 1881 - is father James or Isaac
Post by: Wexflyer on Saturday 21 February 26 23:30 GMT (UK)
Hello, I am looking for information on Matilda Stevenson who married Charles McKinney on 1st January 1901 in St Eugenes, Derry. Matilda was working at the City Hotel.
Matilda is on both the 1901 and 1911 censuses with a approximate birth of 1881 in County Donegal.
I have an Irish genealogy record of the marriage that states Matilda’s father is a policeman named James and a newspaper cutting that states his name is Isaac. I’m trying to confirm Matilda’s father’s name and where Matilda was born.
Thank you in advance for any help.

Are you certain that the newspaper cutting is for the correct family?

Perhaps you could post it here?
Title: Re: Matilda Stevenson born about 1881 - is father James or Isaac
Post by: Wexflyer on Saturday 21 February 26 23:38 GMT (UK)
Two things:

If Matilda was born in 1881, she would not have been "of full age" when she was married on 1 Jan 1901. So probably older.

Second, have births of Unknown Stevensons been looked at?
Title: Re: Matilda Stevenson born about 1881 - is father James or Isaac
Post by: Neale1961 on Sunday 22 February 26 00:58 GMT (UK)
2) have you considered this birth? The name, age and father's occupation seem to match although the father's Christian name and location don't.
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1881/02840/2040903.pdf

You can cross that one off.
This Matilda Stevenson married in 1901 to Thomas BRADY
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/marriage_returns/marriages_1901/10321/5757512.pdf
Title: Re: Matilda Stevenson born about 1881 - is father James or Isaac
Post by: Neale1961 on Sunday 22 February 26 01:02 GMT (UK)
I could not see a policeman called Isaac Stevenson in any records.

This is the only Policeman called James Stevenson that I could see ------ not sure if it is the correct family however.

1901 census    James Stevenson, 42, District Inspector Royal Irish Constabulary
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Down/Ormeau/Ravenhill_Road/1212540/
Not a Catholic family.

Numerous children – many born in Belfast
     father – James Verdier STEVENSON
     mother – Helen Halliday Stevenson nee LITTLE

Note that oldest children are step-children with surname Bingham ( these are from Helen’s 1st marriage)

Edward Stevenson birth in 1898
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/cert_amends/cert_1898/1792589a.pdf

Maurice Stevenson birth in 1900
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1900/01977/1762030.pdf


MARRIAGE 1889  James Verdier STEVENSON to Hellen Halliday BINGHAM (widow)
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/marriage_returns/marriages_1889/10744/5917911.pdf


MARRIAGE 1878
Hellen Halliday LITTLE to Robert BINGHAM
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/marriage_returns/marriages_1878/11118/8069990.pdf

I can’t see that Matilda was a Bingham, but was she an illegitimate child of James?
His place of residence when he married was Co Donegal. Matilda may not be registered under his surname.

In 1902 this James Stevenson was appointed Chief Constable of Glasgow.
Title: Re: Matilda Stevenson born about 1881 - is father James or Isaac
Post by: PatLac on Sunday 22 February 26 01:23 GMT (UK)
One possibility:

Matilda, registered on 12 June 1882 by Matilda Black in Stranorlar, mother and father unknown.

https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1882/02782/2021541.pdf


DEATHS

... Matilda Catherine (Tilly), beloved wife of John Cadden, 3. Ferguson Street. Londonderry, and daughter of the late Joseph and Matilda Black. Funeral on to-morrow (Sunday), 10th hist., at three o’clock p.m., from her late residence, to Glendermott New Cemetery ...

Published: Saturday 09 October 1943
Newspaper: Londonderry Sentinel
County: Londonderry, Northern Ireland
Type: Article | Words: 243 | Page: 1
Title: Re: Matilda Stevenson born about 1881 - is father James or Isaac
Post by: mckha489 on Sunday 22 February 26 02:38 GMT (UK)
Here is the newspaper announcement

https://www.findmypast.co.uk/image-share/8bbac859-02ad-4021-a8ce-828b906853a4

Isaac is deceased, and of Raymochy, Manorcunningham, county Donegal
Title: Re: Matilda Stevenson born about 1881 - is father James or Isaac
Post by: Wexflyer on Sunday 22 February 26 03:48 GMT (UK)
Here is the newspaper announcement

https://www.findmypast.co.uk/image-share/8bbac859-02ad-4021-a8ce-828b906853a4

Isaac is deceased, and of Raymochy, Manorcunningham, county Donegal

Well, you are correct, that is certainly the same marriage.

"Raymochy" is the official Raymoghy townland, located just outside/adjacent to Manorcunningham.
See
https://www.townlands.ie/donegal/raphoe-north/raymoghy/manorcunningham/raymoghy/ (https://www.townlands.ie/donegal/raphoe-north/raymoghy/manorcunningham/raymoghy/)
Title: Re: Matilda Stevenson born about 1881 - is father James or Isaac
Post by: Wexflyer on Sunday 22 February 26 04:18 GMT (UK)
That Matilda was Catholic after marriage does not mean she was a Catholic before she married.
She may not.
Title: Re: Matilda Stevenson born about 1881 - is father James or Isaac
Post by: Wexflyer on Sunday 22 February 26 04:38 GMT (UK)
The 1901 census shows a single Stephenson family in Raymoghy, Reformed Presbyterians.
http://census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai000678572/ (http://census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai000678572/)

Father is dead, parents were William Stephenson and Mary Benson, married 1860
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/marriage_returns/marriages_1860/09592/5478360.pdf (https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/marriage_returns/marriages_1860/09592/5478360.pdf)
Title: Re: Matilda Stevenson born about 1881 - is father James or Isaac
Post by: Wexflyer on Sunday 22 February 26 04:41 GMT (UK)
Matthew and Mary had a daughter, Christian name not specified, in Raymoghy in 1870.
(Note, address abbreviated as "Ray" which appears on other records).

https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1870/03347/2227161.pdf (https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1870/03347/2227161.pdf)
Title: Re: Matilda Stevenson born about 1881 - is father James or Isaac
Post by: Wexflyer on Sunday 22 February 26 04:44 GMT (UK)
Matthew Stephenson died in 1874.
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/deaths_returns/deaths_1874/020652/7246598.pdf (https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/deaths_returns/deaths_1874/020652/7246598.pdf)
Title: Re: Matilda Stevenson born about 1881 - is father James or Isaac
Post by: Wexflyer on Sunday 22 February 26 04:50 GMT (UK)
Matthew and Mary had a daughter, Christian name not specified, in Raymoghy in 1870.
(Note, address abbreviated as "Ray" which appears on other records).

https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1870/03347/2227161.pdf (https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1870/03347/2227161.pdf)

This line of thought doesn't seem to work - baptized as Annie in October. Oh well.
Title: Re: Matilda Stevenson born about 1881 - is father James or Isaac
Post by: mckha489 on Sunday 22 February 26 06:09 GMT (UK)
The Rev Hugh Stevenson features in papers at Manorcunningham a lot. He had a brother Isaac, but he, Isaac, Married Florence McCaw in 1888 in Kensington, and died well after 1901.
They were both sons of another Hugh.
And they had a sister Elizabeth, who was informant for her brother Hugh’s death. He died Londonderry, Collan House,  8 Dec 1904, notice in paper, but it wasn’t registered until the following April! So is in the 1905 deaths, age 55.
In 1906 there is a Mrs David Stevenson at Collan House, don’t know who David is.
Fairly sure these are all Presbyterian.
Title: Re: Matilda Stevenson born about 1881 - is father James or Isaac
Post by: Kiltaglassan on Sunday 22 February 26 07:31 GMT (UK)

Quote
And they had a sister Elizabeth, who was informant for her brother Hugh’s death.

https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/deaths_returns/deaths_1905/05594/4572199.pdf

Another brother John Stevenson who was a bread & biscuit maker in the 1901 census.
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Londonderry/Londonderry_Urban_No__1/Northland_Avenue__part_of_/1535414/
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai000630489/


Title: Re: Matilda Stevenson born about 1881 - is father James or Isaac
Post by: mckha489 on Sunday 22 February 26 09:19 GMT (UK)
Death of the father Hugh. Son Isaac was the informant.

https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/deaths_returns/deaths_1883/06345/4819963.pdf

https://www.findmypast.co.uk/image-share/ef1b0090-a680-4809-bb8c-9fe5aa24a03d

Obit.

https://www.findmypast.co.uk/image-share/601b0f90-6bbf-4c58-91c3-bca2cec71fcb

All very interesting but no closer to establishing the correct father.

And just to complete - almost a whole column describing the funeral. Sons (Hugh, William, John, Isaac & David) and a son in law (Rev James Maconaghie of Omagh) named


https://www.findmypast.co.uk/image-share/601b0f90-6bbf-4c58-91c3-bca2cec71fcb
Title: Re: Matilda Stevenson born about 1881 - is father James or Isaac
Post by: aghadowey on Sunday 22 February 26 09:22 GMT (UK)
Posted on a Facebook forum also where someone has replied "Matilda is interred in Derry City Cemetery, it states she was born Burt, Co. Donegal."
In the cemetery records parents listed as Robert and Jane Stephenson. She died 15 Feb.1940 and age is given as 55 (c1885).
Title: Re: Matilda Stevenson born about 1881 - is father James or Isaac
Post by: shanreagh on Sunday 22 February 26 09:28 GMT (UK)
On the 1911 census Charles and Matilda McKinney state that they have had 5 children and 4 are living.

Here is the link to the child, William McKinney, who died on 24/12/1901 aged 2 months  having had a debility from birth

https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/deaths_returns/deaths_1902/05703/4608363.pdf

and his birth

https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1901/01933/1747921.pdf
Title: Re: Matilda Stevenson born about 1881 - is father James or Isaac
Post by: shanreagh on Sunday 22 February 26 09:50 GMT (UK)
This is getting odd or else I'm weird and going round in circles, probably the latter! It came up when I searched for Matilda Stephenson following Aghadowey's post ex Facebook tip.

https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1883/02749/2009878.pdf
This is of a birth of a Matilda Stevenson in Drummeny born to George and Matilda Hammond Stevenson on 1/3/1883

But I've found another child for Charles and Matilda Stevenson born 31/3/1912 and named Matilda Veronica which is a pretty combination of names, I think. 

https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1912/01492/1606589.pdf

ETA and here is a Robert and a James Stevenson in Drummeny (see above)
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Donegal/Tullynaught/Drummeny_Lower/1169571/

This Robert says he is single.
Title: Re: Matilda Stevenson born about 1881 - is father James or Isaac
Post by: mckha489 on Sunday 22 February 26 10:02 GMT (UK)
Think George’s daughter is this one, unmarried for 1901 census

https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Donegal/Tullynaught/Drummeny_Lower/1169573/
Title: Re: Matilda Stevenson born about 1881 - is father James or Isaac
Post by: Kiltaglassan on Sunday 22 February 26 10:03 GMT (UK)
Quote
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1883/02749/2009878.pdf
This is of a birth of a Matilda Stevenson in Drummeny born to George and Matilda Hammond Stevenson on 1/3/1883

1901 census
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Donegal/Tullynaught/Drummeny_Lower/1169573/
https://www.townlands.ie/donegal/tirhugh/donegal/tullynaught/drummenny-lower/
Just to the east of Donegal town.

Snap, mckha489  :D

Title: Re: Matilda Stevenson born about 1881 - is father James or Isaac
Post by: shanreagh on Sunday 22 February 26 10:04 GMT (UK)
Think George’s daughter is this one, unmarried for 1901 census

https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Donegal/Tullynaught/Drummeny_Lower/1169573/

So she is a widow........aaaagh! perhaps a Stevenson (M S) marred to a Stevenson?
Title: Re: Matilda Stevenson born about 1881 - is father James or Isaac
Post by: shanreagh on Sunday 22 February 26 10:20 GMT (UK)
...

ETA and here is a Robert and a James Stevenson in Drummeny (see above)
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Donegal/Tullynaught/Drummeny_Lower/1169571/

This Robert says he is single.

Here is Robert Stevenson in 1911 census aged 72

https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Donegal/Tullynaught/Drummenny_Lower/480231/
Title: Re: Matilda Stevenson born about 1881 - is father James or Isaac
Post by: Kiltaglassan on Sunday 22 February 26 11:57 GMT (UK)

Matilda (of Drummenny Lower) - her mother's maiden name was Hammond
Marriage 8 March 1879
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/marriage_returns/marriages_1879/11056/8044619.pdf



Title: Re: Matilda Stevenson born about 1881 - is father James or Isaac
Post by: mckha489 on Sunday 22 February 26 18:09 GMT (UK)
Think George’s daughter is this one, unmarried for 1901 census

https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Donegal/Tullynaught/Drummeny_Lower/1169573/

So she is a widow........aaaagh! perhaps a Stevenson (M S) marred to a Stevenson?

The widow is the mother.
The one born 1883 is the 17 yr old daughter here.
Title: Re: Matilda Stevenson born about 1881 - is father James or Isaac
Post by: Wexflyer on Sunday 22 February 26 18:52 GMT (UK)
I approach these sort of problems by having a "theory of the case". It may be incorrect, and as more information comes in I can change or abandon the current theory for another one.

In this particular case, my own present best guess (theory) is that Matilda was illegitimate, and the varying father's names and occupations reflects her way of dealing with that. When asked who your father was, or what was his occupation, are you going to say I don't know? In that situation, many just gave names.  Again, this guess of mine may be completely wrong.

So, I would say OP should turn to DNA testing, and look for matches.
Title: Re: Matilda Stevenson born about 1881 - is father James or Isaac
Post by: PatLac on Sunday 22 February 26 19:09 GMT (UK)
I wonder if she could be the illegitimate daughter of a somewhat important person like Helen Halliday Little who married Robert Augustus Bingham, gentleman, and after he died in 1884, remarried (1889) James Stevenson who was a member of the constabulary.

https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Down/Ormeau/Ravenhill_Road/1212540/

https://www.familysearch.org/en/tree/person/details/GB12-CC4

Or James's daughter with someone else?

"Obituary

Mr. James Verdier Stevenson, a former R.I.C. officer, and later Chief Constable of Glasgow, died at his residence, Herne Bay, to which place he went after retirement from his last position in public life. Deceased joined the R.I.C. in 1884 as cadet officer, and on promotion to District Inspector's rank, was stationed at Donegal and Cork. (...)"

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Stevenson-4182

Title: Re: Matilda Stevenson born about 1881 - is father James or Isaac
Post by: Kiltaglassan on Sunday 22 February 26 21:00 GMT (UK)

Quote
Deceased joined the R.I.C. in 1884 as cadet officer, and on promotion to District Inspector's rank, was stationed at Donegal and Cork. (...)"

Stationed at Falcarragh (Co Donegal) as an R.I.C officer when he married in 1889.

https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/marriage_returns/marriages_1889/10744/5917911.pdf


Title: Re: Matilda Stevenson born about 1881 - is father James or Isaac
Post by: PatLac on Sunday 22 February 26 21:27 GMT (UK)
One possibility:

Matilda, registered on 12 June 1882 by Matilda Black in Stranorlar, mother and father unknown.

https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1882/02782/2021541.pdf


DEATHS

... Matilda Catherine (Tilly), beloved wife of John Cadden, 3. Ferguson Street. Londonderry, and daughter of the late Joseph and Matilda Black. Funeral on to-morrow (Sunday), 10th hist., at three o’clock p.m., from her late residence, to Glendermott New Cemetery ...

Published: Saturday 09 October 1943
Newspaper: Londonderry Sentinel
County: Londonderry, Northern Ireland
Type: Article | Words: 243 | Page: 1

This Matilda was born in 1905 so the previous one, birth registered in 1882, is still a possibility.

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/271719640/matilda-catherine-cadden

https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1905/01762/1694036.pdf
Title: Re: Matilda Stevenson born about 1881 - is father James or Isaac
Post by: shanreagh on Sunday 22 February 26 21:35 GMT (UK)
I approach these sort of problems by having a "theory of the case". It may be incorrect, and as more information comes in I can change or abandon the current theory for another one.

In this particular case, my own present best guess (theory) is that Matilda was illegitimate, and the varying father's names and occupations reflects her way of dealing with that. When asked who your father was, or what was his occupation, are you going to say I don't know? In that situation, many just gave names.  Again, this guess of mine may be completely wrong.

So, I would say OP should turn to DNA testing, and look for matches.

Yes Wexflyer that is good advice about about having a 'theory of the case'.  Several genealogy courses I have been on have suggested this then reflecting on and noting how the theory could be proved/ disproved. 

I must admit having seen the marriage certificate  with the father James as policeman certainly made me think.  What better way really to forestall discussion about parentage than by claiming a policeman as a parent?  Also the lack of perhaps such a person day to day can be explained by the requirement that policemen did not usually live in the communities they served in.

Of course Matilda may be repeating what her mother had told her about her father and this may be correct.   

I find this family fascinating, if elusive, and wonder there is more we can do with registers, logic and leaps of logic before OP goes the DNA way.

Perhaps the OP could generate some theories of the case  and we could have a last crack at them.....? Perhaps summarising the new situation.....?

Also making me think is the Aghadowey saw on a facebook post.

So two theories:

1 James the policeman as father

2 the parents as set out in the FB post Aghadowey saw "Posted on a Facebook forum also where someone has replied "Matilda is interred in Derry City Cemetery, it states she was born Burt, Co. Donegal."
In the cemetery records parents listed as Robert and Jane Stephenson. She died 15 Feb.1940 and age is given as 55 (c1885)."

ETA 3 Matilda Black/Cadden looking at Matilda Black nee Daly
Title: Re: Matilda Stevenson born about 1881 - is father James or Isaac
Post by: Wexflyer on Sunday 22 February 26 21:51 GMT (UK)
I wonder if she could be the illegitimate daughter of a somewhat important person like Helen Halliday Little who married Robert Augustus Bingham, gentleman, and after he died in 1884, remarried (1889) James Stevenson who was a member of the constabulary.

https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Down/Ormeau/Ravenhill_Road/1212540/

https://www.familysearch.org/en/tree/person/details/GB12-CC4

Or James's daughter with someone else?

"Obituary

Mr. James Verdier Stevenson, a former R.I.C. officer, and later Chief Constable of Glasgow, died at his residence, Herne Bay, to which place he went after retirement from his last position in public life. Deceased joined the R.I.C. in 1884 as cadet officer, and on promotion to District Inspector's rank, was stationed at Donegal and Cork. (...)"

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Stevenson-4182

I think that James can be eliminated.

RIC cadet officers trained at the depot in Dublin for a minimum of 6 weeks, and maximum of 6 months.  So if James joined in 1884, and was then appointed to Donegal, then the earliest that an (illegitimate) daughter could have been born there is 1885.  That would make such a daughter a maximum of 15 years old on 1/1/1901, when Matilda was married.  I don't think that is realistic.
Title: Re: Matilda Stevenson born about 1881 - is father James or Isaac
Post by: PatLac on Sunday 22 February 26 22:11 GMT (UK)
So the Facebook info, death 1940 aged 55, is also wrong.
Title: Re: Matilda Stevenson born about 1881 - is father James or Isaac
Post by: Wexflyer on Sunday 22 February 26 22:14 GMT (UK)
So the Facebook info, death 1940 aged 55, is also wrong.

If really 55. Ages often off. But her suggested father is different again anyway.
Title: Re: Matilda Stevenson born about 1881 - is father James or Isaac
Post by: aghadowey on Sunday 22 February 26 22:28 GMT (UK)
So the Facebook info, death 1940 aged 55, is also wrong.
The age 55 years taken from cemetery records which would have been provided by a family member or person arranging the burial. As with death registrations the informant might not know the persons true age- indeed many people born in that period didn't know their own ages or birthdates.
Title: Re: Matilda Stevenson born about 1881 - is father James or Isaac
Post by: PatLac on Sunday 22 February 26 23:57 GMT (UK)
What about her age at the time of her marriage? Full age on 1 January 1901. So she was probably born in 1879.
Title: Re: Matilda Stevenson born about 1881 - is father James or Isaac
Post by: Wexflyer on Monday 23 February 26 00:02 GMT (UK)
What about her age at the time of her marriage? Full age on 1 January 1901. So she was probably born in 1879.

Seems to me that we can't trust anything she said at the time of her marriage. She could have been 21 or much older. Or indeed under 21, and misstating that too.
Title: Re: Matilda Stevenson born about 1881 - is father James or Isaac
Post by: PatLac on Monday 23 February 26 00:12 GMT (UK)
Even her name?
Title: Re: Matilda Stevenson born about 1881 - is father James or Isaac
Post by: Wexflyer on Monday 23 February 26 00:14 GMT (UK)
Even her name?

The thing about her surname is that it might be that of her father. Or mother. And if it were that of her father, then she may have been registered and/or baptized with that of her mother. Who is to say!
Title: Re: Matilda Stevenson born about 1881 - is father James or Isaac
Post by: Joan Benson on Sunday 01 March 26 11:14 GMT (UK)
Here is the newspaper announcement

https://www.findmypast.co.uk/image-share/8bbac859-02ad-4021-a8ce-828b906853a4

Isaac is deceased, and of Raymochy, Manorcunningham, county Donegal

Thank you, I couldn’t work out how to post the image
Title: Re: Matilda Stevenson born about 1881 - is father James or Isaac
Post by: Joan Benson on Sunday 01 March 26 11:16 GMT (UK)
Posted on a Facebook forum also where someone has replied "Matilda is interred in Derry City Cemetery, it states she was born Burt, Co. Donegal."
In the cemetery records parents listed as Robert and Jane Stephenson. She died 15 Feb.1940 and age is given as 55 (c1885).

Thank you. Yes, that was me requesting information and added a 3rd possible father to confuse me even more!
Title: Re: Matilda Stevenson born about 1881 - is father James or Isaac
Post by: Joan Benson on Sunday 01 March 26 11:20 GMT (UK)
I approach these sort of problems by having a "theory of the case". It may be incorrect, and as more information comes in I can change or abandon the current theory for another one.

In this particular case, my own present best guess (theory) is that Matilda was illegitimate, and the varying father's names and occupations reflects her way of dealing with that. When asked who your father was, or what was his occupation, are you going to say I don't know? In that situation, many just gave names.  Again, this guess of mine may be completely wrong.

So, I would say OP should turn to DNA testing, and look for matches.

Thank you. This is a DNA case, I am a volunteer who helps people find their families and I am trying to link 2 groups of Stevensons coming from 2 DNA matches, who also match each other.
Title: Re: Matilda Stevenson born about 1881 - is father James or Isaac
Post by: Joan Benson on Sunday 01 March 26 11:26 GMT (UK)
I approach these sort of problems by having a "theory of the case". It may be incorrect, and as more information comes in I can change or abandon the current theory for another one.

In this particular case, my own present best guess (theory) is that Matilda was illegitimate, and the varying father's names and occupations reflects her way of dealing with that. When asked who your father was, or what was his occupation, are you going to say I don't know? In that situation, many just gave names.  Again, this guess of mine may be completely wrong.

So, I would say OP should turn to DNA testing, and look for matches.

Yes Wexflyer that is good advice about about having a 'theory of the case'.  Several genealogy courses I have been on have suggested this then reflecting on and noting how the theory could be proved/ disproved. 

I must admit having seen the marriage certificate  with the father James as policeman certainly made me think.  What better way really to forestall discussion about parentage than by claiming a policeman as a parent?  Also the lack of perhaps such a person day to day can be explained by the requirement that policemen did not usually live in the communities they served in.

Of course Matilda may be repeating what her mother had told her about her father and this may be correct.   

I find this family fascinating, if elusive, and wonder there is more we can do with registers, logic and leaps of logic before OP goes the DNA way.

Perhaps the OP could generate some theories of the case  and we could have a last crack at them.....? Perhaps summarising the new situation.....?

Also making me think is the Aghadowey saw on a facebook post.

So two theories:

1 James the policeman as father

2 the parents as set out in the FB post Aghadowey saw "Posted on a Facebook forum also where someone has replied "Matilda is interred in Derry City Cemetery, it states she was born Burt, Co. Donegal."
In the cemetery records parents listed as Robert and Jane Stephenson. She died 15 Feb.1940 and age is given as 55 (c1885)."

ETA 3 Matilda Black/Cadden looking at Matilda Black nee Daly

Thank you. I think I do need to look at possibility the father was actually unknown.
Title: Re: Matilda Stevenson born about 1881 - is father James or Isaac
Post by: Joan Benson on Sunday 01 March 26 11:35 GMT (UK)
Thank you to everyone for all of their responses, I’m sorry it’s taken me a while to respond due to illness.

This is a DNA case and I am trying to link this Matilda Stevenson to another group of Stevensons who are the descendants of Joseph Henderson Stevenson (1850-1925) and Annabella Wilkie (1861-1934), Aughlaird, Manorcunningham
Title: Re: Matilda Stevenson born about 1881 - is father James or Isaac
Post by: Kiltaglassan on Sunday 01 March 26 12:11 GMT (UK)

Quote
...Joseph Henderson Stevenson (1850-1925) and Annabella Wilkie (1861-1934), Aughlaird, Manorcunningham

This is Aghlehard townland in Leck civil parish and to the SW of Manorcunningham.
https://www.townlands.ie/donegal/raphoe-north/leck/magheraboy/aghlehard/

Stevensons in the 1911 census - Aghlehard (Aughlehard), Magheraboy, Donegal
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Donegal/Magheraboy/Aghlehard/498912/

https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/5554523#map=12/54.9457/-7.6592


Title: Re: Matilda Stevenson born about 1881 - is father James or Isaac
Post by: Joan Benson on Sunday 01 March 26 12:49 GMT (UK)

Quote
...Joseph Henderson Stevenson (1850-1925) and Annabella Wilkie (1861-1934), Aughlaird, Manorcunningham

This is Aghlehard townland in Leck civil parish and to the SW of Manorcunningham.
https://www.townlands.ie/donegal/raphoe-north/leck/magheraboy/aghlehard/

Thank you. I have all the records for those Stevensons, I just need to try and link them to original query Matilda Stevenson now.


 

Stevensons in the 1911 census - Aghlehard (Aughlehard), Magheraboy, Donegal
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Donegal/Magheraboy/Aghlehard/498912/

https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/5554523#map=12/54.9457/-7.6592
Title: Re: Matilda Stevenson born about 1881 - is father James or Isaac
Post by: mckha489 on Sunday 01 March 26 20:43 GMT (UK)
The thing that puzzles me is the specific nature of the newspaper announcement.  Not just a name, but also a place for ‘the late Isaac’.  Putting that in the newspaper seems risky if it was not true.
Title: Re: Matilda Stevenson born about 1881 - is father James or Isaac
Post by: JACK GEE on Sunday 01 March 26 22:29 GMT (UK)
Good luck Joan Benson on your hunt. I have several Stevenson threads and the only one that cropped up with a combination of your references was the following -

Kilmonaster Old Graveyard, near Churchminster, Donegal         
Will - John Wilkie of Kirkminster died 9.2.1892         
Proved Londonderry by James Roulston of Shannon & James Stevenson of Kirkminster, farmers         
Granted 29.2.1892 [PRONI]

If either of your Stevenson threads have any connection with New Zealand, Letterkenny or the name McClintock , i maybe able to go further.

Cheers
Jack Gee.         
Title: Re: Matilda Stevenson born about 1881 - is father James or Isaac
Post by: PatLac on Sunday 01 March 26 23:50 GMT (UK)
Maybe just a coincidence... Kate Stevenson was the daughter of Henry Stevenson and Sarah Mary nee Philson. Henry was one of Joseph Henderson Stevenson's brothers.

.. residence of Mr. William McKinney, Knockbrack, Letterkenny, Kate Stevenson, youngest daughter of the late Mr. and Mrs. Henry Stevenson, Lower Aughlahard, Manorcunningham. Interred in Errity Burying ground on Friday, June 23rd.

Published: Wednesday 28 June 1972
Newspaper: Londonderry Sentinel
County: Londonderry, Northern Ireland
Type: Article | Words: 90 | Page: 27


Constable Joseph Stevenson


... stabs, principally about the abdomen. He thereupon raised the alarm, and O'Keane was arrested immediately by Constable Joseph Stevenson, who found a shoemaker's knife on the prisoner. It was besmeared with blood, and hair of the pony was on the prisoner's ...

Published: Saturday 13 December 1890
Newspaper: Coleraine Chronicle
County: Londonderry, Northern Ireland
Type: Article | Words: 1384 | Page: 6


Maybe someone with access to BNA could figure out the names of the other children?


SALE OF WORK AT MANORCUNNINGHAM

... houn, Miss Florence Rockwell, and m-l..u‘ Tn the action songs the following children took part—Misses Lizzie Steele, Tillie Stevenson, Lizzie Ruthe m:r';.ig' %’; M Garvey 'Tm;;:fi—. won, An u‘bf Lizzie . Kilpatrick, Hesse M‘Crea, Sarah _l‘Om,- ...


Published: Monday 16 April 1894
Newspaper: Londonderry Standard
County: Londonderry, Northern Ireland
Type: Article | Words: 1144 | Page: 8
Title: Re: Matilda Stevenson born about 1881 - is father James or Isaac
Post by: PatLac on Wednesday 04 March 26 15:44 GMT (UK)
Is this an OCR error or did Matilda had a second forename?


 this acknowledgment will be accepted by all as it would impossible to thank each individually, Matilda V. M'Kinney, 9, Osborne Street, Rosemount...


Published: Friday 05 October 1934
Newspaper: Derry Journal
County: Londonderry, Northern Ireland
Type: Article | Words: 854 | Page: 1
Title: Re: Matilda Stevenson born about 1881 - is father James or Isaac
Post by: Sinann on Wednesday 04 March 26 16:01 GMT (UK)
No it's Matilda V
Title: Re: Matilda Stevenson born about 1881 - is father James or Isaac
Post by: PatLac on Wednesday 04 March 26 16:10 GMT (UK)
Thank you, Sinann! Probably Veronica like her daughter?

Yes!

BridEt Gallagher and Matilda Veronica M'Kinney, who reside in Bishop-street (without), summoned each other for abusive language. Mr. Maxwe!l appeared for Gallagher ...

Published: Wednesday 23 April 1902
Newspaper: Londonderry Standard
County: Londonderry, Northern Ireland
Type: Article | Words: 509 | Page: 6
Title: Re: Matilda Stevenson born about 1881 - is father James or Isaac
Post by: Kiltaglassan on Wednesday 04 March 26 16:29 GMT (UK)

From GRONI Online:
Full Death Record
Matilda Veronica McKinney of 9 Osborne Street, died 15 February 1940 aged 54 years. Her daughter Nellie Leppard was the informant.

D/1940/167/1020/5/270   Matilda McKinney   15th February 1940      54      Female   Londonderry


Title: Re: Matilda Stevenson born about 1881 - is father James or Isaac
Post by: PatLac on Wednesday 04 March 26 17:45 GMT (UK)
One of the witnesses in Matilda's marriage record is Eliza McGrory.

https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/marriage_returns/marriages_1901/10299/5748857.pdf

A Matilda McGrory was born in Derry Workhouse on 27 December 1880, mother Catherine McGrory.

https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1880/02852/2045008.pdf

A Catherine McGrory (nee Gallagher), married John McGrory, and had a son William James McGrory born on 9 September 1879 at Bridge End, Burt, Donegal.

https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1879/02896/2061153.pdf

They apparently had a daughter called Sarah, present at their death, Catherine died on 7 Feb 1895 at Castlequarter, and John on 16 November 1897 at Carnaghan, but I can't find her birth record.

https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/deaths_returns/deaths_1895/05941/4687709.pdf

https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/deaths_returns/deaths_1897/05848/4656933.pdf





Title: Re: Matilda Stevenson born about 1881 - is father James or Isaac
Post by: mckha489 on Wednesday 04 March 26 18:51 GMT (UK)

Maybe someone with access to BNA could figure out the names of the other children?


SALE OF WORK AT MANORCUNNINGHAM

... houn, Miss Florence Rockwell, and m-l..u‘ Tn the action songs the following children took part—Misses Lizzie Steele, Tillie Stevenson, Lizzie Ruthe m:r';.ig' %’; M Garvey 'Tm;;:fi—. won, An u‘bf Lizzie . Kilpatrick, Hesse M‘Crea, Sarah _l‘Om,- ...


Published: Monday 16 April 1894
Newspaper: Londonderry Standard
County: Londonderry, Northern Ireland
Type: Article | Words: 1144 | Page: 8


https://www.findmypast.co.uk/image-share/e07823ea-4d94-461e-8a8d-129c851cb780
Title: Re: Matilda Stevenson born about 1881 - is father James or Isaac
Post by: PatLac on Wednesday 04 March 26 19:16 GMT (UK)
Thank you, mckha! Lots of work ahead  ;D
Title: Re: Matilda Stevenson born about 1881 - is father James or Isaac
Post by: Joan Benson on Sunday 08 March 26 12:40 GMT (UK)
Maybe just a coincidence... Kate Stevenson was the daughter of Henry Stevenson and Sarah Mary nee Philson. Henry was one of Joseph Henderson Stevenson's brothers.

.. residence of Mr. William McKinney, Knockbrack, Letterkenny, Kate Stevenson, youngest daughter of the late Mr. and Mrs. Henry Stevenson, Lower Aughlahard, Manorcunningham. Interred in Errity Burying ground on Friday, June 23rd.

Published: Wednesday 28 June 1972
Newspaper: Londonderry Sentinel
County: Londonderry, Northern Ireland
Type: Article | Words: 90 | Page: 27


Constable Joseph Stevenson


... stabs, principally about the abdomen. He thereupon raised the alarm, and O'Keane was arrested immediately by Constable Joseph Stevenson, who found a shoemaker's knife on the prisoner. It was besmeared with blood, and hair of the pony was on the prisoner's ...

Published: Saturday 13 December 1890
Newspaper: Coleraine Chronicle
County: Londonderry, Northern Ireland
Type: Article | Words: 1384 | Page: 6


Maybe someone with access to BNA could figure out the names of the other children?


SALE OF WORK AT MANORCUNNINGHAM

... houn, Miss Florence Rockwell, and m-l..u‘ Tn the action songs the following children took part—Misses Lizzie Steele, Tillie Stevenson, Lizzie Ruthe m:r';.ig' %’; M Garvey 'Tm;;:fi—. won, An u‘bf Lizzie . Kilpatrick, Hesse M‘Crea, Sarah _l‘Om,- ...


Published: Monday 16 April 1894
Newspaper: Londonderry Standard
County: Londonderry, Northern Ireland
Type: Article | Words: 1144 | Page: 8

Thank you. This is the other Stevenson family I am trying to link Matilda to.
Title: Re: Matilda Stevenson born about 1881 - is father James or Isaac
Post by: Joan Benson on Sunday 08 March 26 12:51 GMT (UK)
Thank you so much for all of the very helpful responses.

I had another thought about the name of Matilda’s father, could she have been lying about it because she was a Protestant and was marrying a Catholic? I had this scenario in my own family and the couple left Ireland.

To summarise what I have so far is: At her marriage Matilda declared her father to be James Stevenson, a policeman. In a newspaper record of the wedding, Matilda’s father is names as Isaac Stevenson, deceased. At Matilda’s burial, her daughter declared Matilda’s father to be Robert Stevenson.

There is one further confusion, a Matilda Stevenson born in 1881 is the daughter of William Stevenson who was a policeman but the birth was in Kilkenny and looking at the family history, I think I can discount that possibility.
Title: Re: Matilda Stevenson born about 1881 - is father James or Isaac
Post by: PatLac on Monday 16 March 26 14:58 GMT (UK)
Just to add a small detail... in Matilda's burial record her parents are listed as Robert and Sarah STEPHENSON, which could mean that her daughter Nellie had no idea who her biological grandparents were, or perhaps Matilda was indeed a Stephenson after all. On Nellie's birth record there is a 'her x mark' but in the census records she can read and write  ???

https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1910/01560/1629980.pdf

IF there is a DNA link between her and Joseph Henderson Stevenson, perhaps he was her biological father before his marriage in 1884, or perhaps she is the illegitimate daughter of his brother James, who had two children with his wife Annie Dick, one in 1879 and the other in 1881, born in Churchminster and registered in Castlefin, Strabane. If she was illegitimate, her mother may have moved to Burt, if this information is correct. ???

Anyway, they were all farmers... Have you followed up the James Stevenson, policeman, mentioned in the newspaper?
Title: Re: Matilda Stevenson born about 1881 - is father James or Isaac
Post by: aghadowey on Monday 16 March 26 16:30 GMT (UK)
In Ireland Stevenson. Stephenson, Stevens and Stephens can all be used for the same family. Until fairly recently spelling variations in names for both people and places were very common.