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Census Lookups General Lookups => Census and Resource Discussion => Topic started by: mtrplt on Thursday 19 February 26 17:53 GMT (UK)
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Hi, I am trying to locate William Edward Griffin in 1921 census, born Middlesbrough about 1881, living in Hartlepool 1911
I have him in 1911 as family head but can't find him after that, although I can find mother and brother. (Mary Jane and Christopher Griffin) Grateful for any help,
Thanks, Bill.
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It looks like he may have still been in the Military in 1921.
There is a 'Pension' record saying 'transferred to Northern Reg' on 20/1/1922.
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Whilst you cannot find him in 1921 do you know when he died, did he ever marry and if so when.
SS
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If I am looking at the correct Pension Card - there is an entry saying he was paid 4/6 for his wife - (not sure I am understanding it correctly though) - in addition he had 1 child under 16.
Address on leaving in 1922 seems to be 18, Hill St, Long Hill, W. Hartlepool.
My apologies in advance if I have misunderstood the Pension Card on Fold3.
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If I am looking at the correct Pension Card - there is an entry saying he was paid 4/6 for his wife - (not sure I am understanding it correctly though) - in addition he had 1 child under 16.
Address on leaving in 1922 seems to be 18, Hill St, Long Hill, W. Hartlepool.
My apologies in advance if I have misunderstood the Pension Card on Fold3.
Believe the address is 15 Hill St. This is the address of his brother Clifford/Wife and children.
SS
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Thank you for the replies, I don't know when or if he married , or even when he died. The military may be a possibility, in 1921. I have 3 army numbers, 7514, 8951, 94428. Do any of those tie in?
He was in the Royal Defence Corp half way through and beyond WW1 so may not have been living in Hartlepool, perhaps just using his brother's address as his home address
Regards, Bill.
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Why not consider a £3 gro birth image. This may establish if he was still around in 1939 and even possibly married with children
SS
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If I am looking at the correct Pension Card - there is an entry saying he was paid 4/6 for his wife - (not sure I am understanding it correctly though) - in addition he had 1 child under 16.
Address on leaving in 1922 seems to be 18, Hill St, Long Hill, W. Hartlepool.
My apologies in advance if I have misunderstood the Pension Card on Fold3.
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This I think is almost certainly him, is there an army number on the pension card?
I don't know how the army registered men who were in barracks or whatever but they must have had to do so for the 1921 census surely?
Regards, Bill.
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The Regimental number on his Pension card is 94428.
The pension appears to go up to 28/3/1922 on the reverse of this card.
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Electoral Register 1920 (Spring) Hartlepool
15 Hill Street
Christopher Griffin
Edward Griffin
William Edward Griffin
Ref:FindMyPast
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1925 and 1926 (Also 1924)
11 Park Street
William Edward Griffin
Susannah Griffin
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William Edward Griffin dob 7th August 1881.
SS
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His brother Christopher died 1933 there is an obituary on ancestry (I don't have a sub)
He married Ellen Glenn 1917 was William Edward a witness?
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Leeds Mercury dated 26 September 1933
Inquest was held for Christopher Griffin 46 who was found gassed at his house on Back Alfred Street.
The Aberdeen Press dated 25 September 1933 - (additional details) he was unemployed - found by his 15 year old son.
They have Albert Street.
Verdict Suicide
ADDED
The Yorkshire Evening Post - he was a widower.
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1919 Absent Voters West Hartlepool
William Edward Griffin 33 8951 L/Cpl 2nd. Bn Durham L.I.
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William Edward Griffin WAS a witness to Christopher's marriage on 26 May 1917 at Hartlepool.
Father shown as Edward Griffin, Labourer.
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William Edward Griffin WAS a witness to Christopher's marriage on 26 May 1917 at Hartlepool.
Father shown as Edward Griffin, Labourer.
Got to ask, is there an image of the marriage somewhere?
SS
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SS - it's on Durham Records On Line.
https://www.durhamrecordsonline.com/
but you need to pay £3 to see it.
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Thanks Pennines, have added that link to my wallet.
SS
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I am pleased about that. We never know when various sites may come in useful.
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1919 Absent Voters West Hartlepool
William Edward Griffin 33 8951 L/Cpl 2nd. Bn Durham L.I.
This is confusing me. According to his medal card he was first with the DLI with the number 8951, then transferred to the Royal Defence Corps where he got the number 94428, and apparently ended the war in the RDC. The RDC was only deployed in the UK (guarding Key Points and prisoners of war). It was formed in 1916. According to his medal card he embarked for France on 24 March 1915 so he must have been in the DLI at the point. Since the 2nd battalion DLI had gone to France in August 1914, he was probably part of a draft of soldiers sent out to reinforce that Battalion. Which brings us to his number, 8951. If he had initially been a soldier in the 2nd Battalion, the number indicates that he joined up in mid 1904, which suggests that by August 1914, before the start of the war, he was in the Army Reserve having completed his colour service (perhaps around 1909). But if that was the case he would have been recalled to the colours on the outbreak of war and gone with his battalion in August 1914. So I don't think that is the correct interpretation for him.
The other explanation for the number 8951 is that he was part of the 3rd (Militia) Battalion DLI which had a separate numbering scheme. 8951 indicates an enlistment into the 3rd Bn in 1908. The militia were part time soldiers so he would have been living at home and continued in his civilian job. Due to their conditions of service, the militia could not be deployed overseas unless they consented to this. Some assuming that he was called up in 1914 as a militiaman he might still be living in Hartlepool, until such time as he agreed to the change in his terms of service, which then permitted him to be sent to France to join the 2nd battalion.
We don't know when he transferred to the RDC, but I would have expected this to have happened long before the Autumn of 1918, which is when the 1919 electoral register was compiled. So why is he shown as being still in the 2nd DLI?
The other question is why he was transferred to the RDC. It could be due to his age, but 40 year old men were still being conscripted in 1917-18 so I don't think that alone is the answer. I think it is more likely that he was either injured or suffered some ailment which made him unfit for service in France, but fit enough for the less strenuous work of the RDC back in the UK. Perhaps his pension record provides a clue to this.
Lastly there is the third number Bill mentioned, namely 7514. This was the number of Pte W Griffin of the 1st Battalion DLI during his service in the 2nd Boer War for which he was awarded the Queen's South Africa medal with the clasps Transvaal and South Africa 2 - meaning he only served in South Africa in period 1 January – 31 May 1902.
Piecing this all together, it looks like he joined the Army in 1901 (aged 20). He probably initially joined either the 3rd or 4th battalion and went to South Africa as part of a draft to reinforce the 1st Battalion DLI, which had deployed to S Africa in November 1899. When he returned to the UK he probably completed his original engagement and returned to civilian life. At some later stage (either mid 1904 or 1908) he re-enlisted and was given his second number 8951. This would have placed him in the Special Reserve due to his earlier service, and led to him being called up shortly after the start of WW1, and subsequently being sent to reinforce the 2nd Battalion in early 1915 (the 1st Battalion being in India at the time).
It is unfortunate that his service record hasn't survived as it would probably have been quite detailed. The length of his service, albeit broken into two or three parts, would have been the main reason for him gaining a pension at war's end. Knowing where he was at the time of the 1911 census might throw some light on whether he was serving with the colours at that time. I couldn't find him, after doing a quick check.
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Wow, so much information thanks everyone
Andy J2022 that is an amazing summary, thanks for taking the time with that.
In 1901 census he was in Hartlepool so would that still see him going to S Africa?
He was wounded in France in 1915, left the army and joined the RDC, was that voluntary or conscription?
Christopher's death.... the newspaper has his son's age out, Tom was 14, he climbed up the outside of the house and could see him through the window.
Regarding 11 park street I take it Susannah would have been William's wife?
Regards, Bill.
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In 1901 census he was in Hartlepool so would that still see him going to S Africa?
Yes I think so.
He was wounded in France in 1915, left the Army and joined the RDC, was that voluntary or conscription?
Assuming that he was discharged on medical grounds after being wounded, then I don't think he would have been eligible for conscription, so my guess would be that he joined voluntarily. That still makes the 1919 absent voter electoral register entry somewhat odd. Also, if he was medically discharged he would have been eligible for the Silver War Badge first issued in September 1916. As there is no record of him being issued with one, perhaps he was already back in uniform (of the RDC) by that stage and not in need of a SWB.