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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Sussex => Topic started by: 0ctavia on Saturday 14 February 26 07:21 GMT (UK)
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Hello :)
James Terry was born in 1849 in Brightling, East Sussex. I get this information from the 1891 & 1901 census records. The 1881 census records show him as being born in 1846 but still in Brightling. I am inclined to think that the 1849 year of birth is correct though because his marriage certificate from his second marriage in 1888 states his age as 39 indicating that 1849 is indeed the correct year of birth.
From the marriage certificate I also see that his father is a deceased carpenter named Thomas Terry. At the moment I know nothing about his mother.
I am wanting to find James GRO birth record to see if there was an indication of his mother's maiden name, but I cannot find anything! I have tried different search options such as searching quite a few years before and after 1849. I have put James as his first forename. I have put nothing in as the forename and put James as his second forename. I have selected both exact matches, phonetically similar variations, and similar sounding variations for his surname. Nothing I try produces any births in the vicinity of Brightling.
I'd appreciate any comments from anyone if they have ideas on the way forward.
Thank you for reading.
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How old did he say he was on the first marriage to Jane Ellen Butcher 1876 reg. Brighton ?
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I don’t know. I only have details from the Civil Marriage Registration Index which doesn’t give his age.
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In case any of this helps link to the family:
Brightling would have been in the Battle registration district.
There are 2 Terrys that I can find within the BMD indexes for Battle between 1847 and 1850:
John Terry - died Sept Quarter 1848 - aged 32
Lucy Terry - married March Quarter 1849
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I was curious who he named as his father on the first marriage as well as his age.
You may have to purchase the certificate to see if he fibbed.
Notes:
there is a James Thomas Terry reg 1854 at Battle. he is illegitimate mother Charlotte.
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In case any of this helps link to the family:
Brightling would have been in the Battle registration district.
There are 2 Terrys that I can find within the BMD indexes for Battle between 1847 and 1850:
John Terry - died Sept Quarter 1848 - aged 32
Lucy Terry - married March Quarter 1849
Thank you. Sadly neither of those two fit the bill. Tis a puzzle indeed!
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I was curious who he named as his father on the first marriage as well as his age.
You may have to purchase the certificate to see if he fibbed.
Notes:
there is a James Thomas Terry reg 1854 at Battle. he is illegitimate mother Charlotte.
Mmm. I don’t think l went back quite that far. Thanks for the info, and yes, maybe I will purchase the certificate since he is a direct ancestor of mine :)
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Expanding this further 1842-1855:
1842 Deaths (same volume and page, suggesting same or similar time): Lucy (aged 66) and William (aged 73).
1842 Birth - Philliss Elizabeth (MMN Noakes)
1843 Marriage - Frances Terry
1845 Birth - Caroline (MMN Noakes)
1846 Birth - John (No mother's maiden name - so it would probably be Terry)
1848 Death - John (aged 32)
1849 Marriage - Lucy
1851 Birth - Ellen
1852 Marriage - William
1854 Birth - James Thomas (No mother's maiden name)
1855 Marriage - Charlotte
The 1854 James is most likely the son of Charlotte that was baptised in Bexhill in 1854.
Charlotte may well have then married the following year to James Christian. It is possible that James may be recorded on census records with his step father's name.
1861 Census:
James Christian, 36, Head, Brewer's Servant
Charlotte Christian, 27, Wife
James Christian, 6, Son, Scholar
Lucy Christian, 4, Daughter, Scholar
Nathaniel Christian, 3, Son, Scholar
George Christian, 6 Months, Son
I'd suggest this may be an interesting avenue of research.
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This is not the right James Terry I'm afraid.
Charlotte, his mother dies in 1873 and James Thomas Terry marries later on and can be found on census records clashing with your one.
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Was his first marriage at Portslade to Esther Ellen Scrase in 1876, that states he is 26 and his father is George Terry .
I have just noticed that he married Jane E Butcher -marriage indexed as Terrey
The 1881 gives his age as 35
The 1888 marriage he is 39
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Back to the drawing board (from tackling this at a different angle):
1842 Deaths (same volume and page, suggesting same or similar time): Lucy (aged 66) and William (aged 73).
1842 Birth - Philliss Elizabeth (MMN Noakes)
1843 Marriage - Frances Terry
1845 Birth - Caroline (MMN Noakes)
1846 Birth - John (No mother's maiden name - so it would probably be Terry)
1848 Death - John (aged 32)
1849 Marriage - Lucy
1852 Marriage - William
1854 Birth - James Thomas (No mother's maiden name)
1855 Marriage - Charlotte
The John born in 1846 is on later census records.
The 1842 burials of William (6th March) and Lucy (15th March) are in Bexhill
1848 burial of John is in Bexhill (though his age is listed as 22).
Marriages:
Frances Terry (daughter of William Terry) marries William Smith in Bexhill in 1843
Lucy Terry (daughter of William Terry) marries James Cruttenden in Bexhill in 1849
William Terry (carman of Camberwell (son of William Terry) marries Elizabeth Saxby in Battle in 1852
Elizabeth Saxby doesn't seem to have an illegitimate son that could have taken the Terry surname.
I'd say that Terry is not that common a name in the Battle Registration District other than a family in Bexhill.
I'd also agree that the marriage certificate to Jane Butcher would be useful.
I'd also suggest using DNA if you can.
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There's an older Thomas Terry in the 1841 census at Arundel who is a carpenter. Perhaps he is the grandfather. Might be worth looking into if he had any children who could be parent to James?
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This is not the right James Terry I'm afraid.
Charlotte, his mother dies in 1873 and James Thomas Terry marries later on and can be found on census records clashing with your one.
OK. Noted. I won't go down that track then!
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Was his first marriage at Portslade to Esther Ellen Scrase in 1876, that states he is 26 and his father is George Terry .
I have just noticed that he married Jane E Butcher -marriage indexed as Terrey
The 1881 gives his age as 35
The 1888 marriage he is 39
Yes, his age in the 1881 census does not match the next two census records nor his second marriage - hence me thinking the 1881 details could be incorrect.
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Notes:
there is a James Thomas Terry reg 1854 at Battle. he is illegitimate mother Charlotte.
I went to the www.gro.gov.uk website for my information but that doesn't give me first name details of mother. Where did you go to get the Charlotte info please?
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Back to the drawing board (from tackling this at a different angle):
1842 Deaths (same volume and page, suggesting same or similar time): Lucy (aged 66) and William (aged 73).
1842 Birth - Philliss Elizabeth (MMN Noakes)
1843 Marriage - Frances Terry
1845 Birth - Caroline (MMN Noakes)
1846 Birth - John (No mother's maiden name - so it would probably be Terry)
1848 Death - John (aged 32)
1849 Marriage - Lucy
1852 Marriage - William
1854 Birth - James Thomas (No mother's maiden name)
1855 Marriage - Charlotte
The John born in 1846 is on later census records.
The 1842 burials of William (6th March) and Lucy (15th March) are in Bexhill
1848 burial of John is in Bexhill (though his age is listed as 22).
Marriages:
Frances Terry (daughter of William Terry) marries William Smith in Bexhill in 1843
Lucy Terry (daughter of William Terry) marries James Cruttenden in Bexhill in 1849
William Terry (carman of Camberwell (son of William Terry) marries Elizabeth Saxby in Battle in 1852
Elizabeth Saxby doesn't seem to have an illegitimate son that could have taken the Terry surname.
I'd say that Terry is not that common a name in the Battle Registration District other than a family in Bexhill.
I'd also agree that the marriage certificate to Jane Butcher would be useful.
I'd also suggest using DNA if you can.
Thank you for your comments. Where did you go to get all the info. The GRO site seems to only have search facilities for birth and death, unless I'm in the wrong part of the website???
I have done a DNA test via Ancestry - is that what you mean?
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There's an older Thomas Terry in the 1841 census at Arundel who is a carpenter. Perhaps he is the grandfather. Might be worth looking into if he had any children who could be parent to James?
Yes, thank you. I will follow this up and let you know if anything comes from it :-)
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Octavia reply 14
I got the mother's name from the baptism record at Bexhill.
Born 16 August 1854 bap. 8 October 1854 mother Charlotte Terry - spinster
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You may have to consider the possibility that there may not have been a birth registration. It was not compulsory to inform the local registrar, but this changed in 1875 - well after the period you are looking at. It is estimated that in some areas, up to 15% of births were not registered between 1837 and 1875 and Sussex was one county known to be lacking.
One of my 2x great grandfathers does not appear to have been registered: he was born in 1848. His wife's birth registration has proved equally elusive. I only have baptism records for them.
Nell
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Octavia reply 14
I got the mother's name from the baptism record at Bexhill.
Born 16 August 1854 bap. 8 October 1854 mother Charlotte Terry - spinster
Ah. That makes sense. Thank you.
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There's an older Thomas Terry in the 1841 census at Arundel who is a carpenter. Perhaps he is the grandfather. Might be worth looking into if he had any children who could be parent to James?
Leaning towards thinking it's probably not him as there seems to be some indication that he died in 1843. - but you have to try these things :-) Thank you for the suggestion.
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You may have to consider the possibility that there may not have been a birth registration. It was not compulsory to inform the local registrar, but this changed in 1875 - well after the period you are looking at. It is estimated that in some areas, up to 15% of births were not registered between 1837 and 1875 and Sussex was one county known to be lacking.
One of my 2x great grandfathers does not appear to have been registered: he was born in 1848. His wife's birth registration has proved equally elusive. I only have baptism records for them.
Nell
I did not realise that. Thank you! I may be on a wild goose chase then! Thank you for the heads up ;D
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Can you confirm please that the census sightings you have match these? Just in case I'm chasing after the wrong man!
1881 RG11/1049 fol 58 (age 35)
1891 RG12/0781 fol 51 (age 42)
1901 RG13/0753 fol 86 (age 52)
Since birthplace is consistent, I'd be trying to identify his bap. Brightling PRs are on Ancestry https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/collections/62125/, whilst he's not indexed under any obvious variant he may be badly mistranscribed, or his mother subsequently married a TERRY. A long job that will involve a trawl for (I'd suggest) quite a few years either side of 1849, try to account for each and every James going forward. How much time you dedicate to it will depend on how desperately you want to know who his mother was.
Regarding supposed father Thomas TERRY, the name may have been a complete fabrication or James's mother may have told him his deceased father's name was Thomas. He may even have been a carpenter. However although young James had presumably been brought up as a TERRY that doesn't necessarily mean that was his father's surname too. Have you managed to identify the witnesses to the 1888 marriage?
In all three censuses where he's been found, he admits to being significantly older than his wife. I'd be inclined to think he may have been older still, and that could put the Arundel Thomas back in the frame. If I'm looking at the correct census pages, who is William age 7 in 1881/17 in 1891? Might there be another marriage prior to 1876?
Have fun
Jane :-)
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Can you confirm please that the census sightings you have match these? Just in case I'm chasing after the wrong man!
1881 RG11/1049 fol 58 (age 35)
1891 RG12/0781 fol 51 (age 42)
1901 RG13/0753 fol 86 (age 52)
Since birthplace is consistent, I'd be trying to identify his bap. Brightling PRs are on Ancestry https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/collections/62125/, whilst he's not indexed under any obvious variant he may be badly mistranscribed, or his mother subsequently married a TERRY. A long job that will involve a trawl for (I'd suggest) quite a few years either side of 1849, try to account for each and every James going forward. How much time you dedicate to it will depend on how desperately you want to know who his mother was.
Regarding supposed father Thomas TERRY, the name may have been a complete fabrication or James's mother may have told him his deceased father's name was Thomas. He may even have been a carpenter. However although young James had presumably been brought up as a TERRY that doesn't necessarily mean that was his father's surname too. Have you managed to identify the witnesses to the 1888 marriage?
In all three censuses where he's been found, he admits to being significantly older than his wife. I'd be inclined to think he may have been older still, and that could put the Arundel Thomas back in the frame. If I'm looking at the correct census pages, who is William age 7 in 1881/17 in 1891? Might there be another marriage prior to 1876?
Have fun
Jane :-)
Hi Jane
Yes, all three census records are the correct ones.
Thank you for your insights - some things for me to consider.
Re witnesses to the 1888 marriage. No, I haven't identified them although I would assume one is James' wife's brother or cousin because the surname matches the maiden name. It's another avenue for me to follow up.
Re William - I hadn't picked up that he was born a couple of years before the first marriage so some more things to investigate!
Thanks for the tips - and yes, I will have fun :-)
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Must admit I did spot that William was born prior to 1st marriage. Bit of a problem though. Believe he is William Henry Butcher born
BUTCHER, WILLIAM HENRY -
GRO Reference: 1873 D Quarter in TUNBRIDGE Volume 02A Page 573
Baptism image on FindMyPast. Parents William & Jane Ellen Butcher. Date 30th November 1873 Tunbridge Wells, father occupation Fly Driver (single horse cab)
SS
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Must admit I did spot that William was born prior to 1st marriage. Bit of a problem though. Believe he is William Henry Butcher born
BUTCHER, WILLIAM HENRY -
GRO Reference: 1873 D Quarter in TUNBRIDGE Volume 02A Page 573
Baptism image on FindMyPast. Parents William & Jane Ellen Butcher. Date 30th November 1873 Tunbridge Wells, father occupation Fly Driver (single horse cab)
SS
Oh! Thank you. If that’s so, then Butcher is not Jane Ellen’s maiden name meaning quite a few ancestors are incorrect!! ::) Off to bed now but will take a look tomorrow evening.
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Jane Ellen was "Butcher", believe she made up a husband at baptism.
BUTCHER, JANE ELLEN mmn PEERLESS
GRO Reference: 1851 S Quarter in TUNBRIDGE Volume 05 Page 577
SS
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Sorry - I have had something else to focus on the past few days!
Let's just get straight everything we know:
1850 - Supposed birth
1874 - Birth of son William Terry in Tunbridge Wells, Kent (Where Jane Ellen was born). May not be his biological son.
1876 - Married Jane Ellen Butcher
1878 - Birth of son Arthur Ernest Terry in Frant
1881 - Living in Frant
1884 - Wife Jane Ellen dies
1888 - Married Alice Frances Smithers in Tunbridge Wells
Why might he be returning to Tunbridge Wells to get married?
1889 - Birth of James George Terry in Frant (Baptised New Groombridge)
1891 - Living in Frant
1892 - Birth of Ethel Frances Terry in Frant
1895 - Birth of Percy Terry in Speldhurst
1899 - Birth of Fred Douglas Terry in Tunbridge Wells
1901 - Living in Tunbridge Wells
Arthur Skinner and Annie Smithers are witnesses to the marriage to Alice Smithers.
Annie would make sense as her sister.
Arthur Skinner needs to be identified.
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There's a clear candidate for Arthur Skinner
b c1859, Ashurst. Living in Speldhurst in 1881 & 1891. Married Martha Luckhurst. As a child lives with his grandparents Thomas and Ann. A baptism record suggests he's the illegitimate child of an Ann Skinner - who I;m having trouble tracing
There's no family link jumping out immediately - might just have been a friend
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Jane Ellen was "Butcher", believe she made up a husband at baptism.
BUTCHER, JANE ELLEN mmn PEERLESS
GRO Reference: 1851 S Quarter in TUNBRIDGE Volume 05 Page 577
SS
Was that actually a thing?? - that single women with a child would sometimes make up a husband???
Wouldn't the vicar have picked up on that? Or was it common enough that they let it slide?
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Sorry - I have had something else to focus on the past few days!
Let's just get straight everything we know:
1850 - Supposed birth
1874 - Birth of son William Terry in Tunbridge Wells, Kent (Where Jane Ellen was born). May not be his biological son.
1876 - Married Jane Ellen Butcher
1878 - Birth of son Arthur Ernest Terry in Frant
1881 - Living in Frant
1884 - Wife Jane Ellen dies
1888 - Married Alice Frances Smithers in Tunbridge Wells
Why might he be returning to Tunbridge Wells to get married?
1889 - Birth of James George Terry in Frant (Baptised New Groombridge)
1891 - Living in Frant
1892 - Birth of Ethel Frances Terry in Frant
1895 - Birth of Percy Terry in Speldhurst
1899 - Birth of Fred Douglas Terry in Tunbridge Wells
1901 - Living in Tunbridge Wells
Arthur Skinner and Annie Smithers are witnesses to the marriage to Alice Smithers.
Annie would make sense as her sister.
Arthur Skinner needs to be identified.
Not sure why James and Alice got married in Tunbridge Wells. Alice was born in Deptford, Kent so, maybe that had something to do with it.
Regarding Arthur Skinner. I've found out that Alice's mother was Ann Skinner. It is looking like Ann had a brother called Arthur although admittedly this is on someone else's tree on Ancestry and there are no documents as yet to back this up - but at least it would seem he was a relative of some kind.
On another subject completely, I notice at the bottom of your signature you mention GEDmatch. If I understand correctly, someone can upload their dna info to that website. Did you find it worth it?
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There's a clear candidate for Arthur Skinner
b c1859, Ashurst. Living in Speldhurst in 1881 & 1891. Married Martha Luckhurst. As a child lives with his grandparents Thomas and Ann. A baptism record suggests he's the illegitimate child of an Ann Skinner - who I;m having trouble tracing
There's no family link jumping out immediately - might just have been a friend
It would seem that Arthur may be the brother of Ann Skinner who I now know is Alice's mother. Still searching. Thank you for taking an interest and helping :-)
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Regarding Arthur Skinner. I've found out that Alice's mother was Ann Skinner. It is looking like Ann had a brother called Arthur although admittedly this is on someone else's tree on Ancestry and there are no documents as yet to back this up - but at least it would seem he was a relative of some kind.
On another subject completely, I notice at the bottom of your signature you mention GEDmatch. If I understand correctly, someone can upload their dna info to that website. Did you find it worth it?
That would make sense about Arthur.
The benefits to having GEDmatch is that it gives you a wider pool of matches. You can also triangulate matches to identify which side of the family tree they would be on. Being able to identify the segments shared is also valuable for this.
I think your Terry problem could be explored by aligning DNA matches to sides of your family tree. I've uncovered who my mystery 3x great grandparents were. Only the dad's first name was fully accurate (as in birth name) on his son's birth certificate. They also decided to change their surname to Smith - not that helpful when they're from London. There's more to the story as it is quite a complex case.
If you can get the closest relative to James Terry to test, it would really help break down the matches into sides of your tree.
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There's a clear candidate for Arthur Skinner
b c1859, Ashurst. Living in Speldhurst in 1881 & 1891. Married Martha Luckhurst. As a child lives with his grandparents Thomas and Ann. A baptism record suggests he's the illegitimate child of an Ann Skinner - who I;m having trouble tracing
There's no family link jumping out immediately - might just have been a friend
It would seem that Arthur may be the brother of Ann Skinner who I now know is Alice's mother. Still searching. Thank you for taking an interest and helping :-)
Given Arthur was b c1859, with mother Ann, and Alice was b c1865, I think it more likely they're half siblings
The confusion may come from the fact that Ann Skinner Smithers' mother is also Ann, and Arthur lived with Granny
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Is it possible this is him in 1871? :-\
James Terry, 26, Ag Lab, born Brighton, living in Rotherfield
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VFDS-297
or here
https://www.freecen.org.uk/search_records/5904f4dbe9379091b105e7d6
Supposedly married to Frances, 26, born Croydon, Surrey.
Rotherfield is close to Frant
Age is similar to that in 1881.
Could Brighton be a mistake for Brightling? He doesn't seem to match anyone in any other census (there is one born Brighton circa 1839 and one born circa 1848)
A couple of James Terry - Frances marriages before 1871, but neither seems to be right.
And no further sign of the couple?
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At Lealands in Rotherfield in 1871
Next dwelling is William Sumner (farmer) at Lealands Farm
https://www.freecen.org.uk/search_records/5904f4dbe9379091b105e7d6
This farm may perhaps have straddled more than one parish.
William Sumner died in 1884, probate for him, late of Rotherfield.
The newspapers meanwhile describe the farm as Lealand’s Farm, Groombridge.
From the 1881 census TS, James Terry was at Sewage Farm Cottage in the parish of Frant
And is in the area of Broadwater Forest and Groombridge.
So I guess he may possibly be the James Terry, labourer, employed at the Sewage Farm, Groombridge, giving evidence against some potentially naughty people reported in the South Eastern Advertiser, 24 March 1883 (I don't have access)
Is he then the James Terry, labourer, in the employ of the resident engineer of the Tunbridge Wells Commissioners, residing in Groombridge (possibly Southern Sewage Farm) and maybe giving evidence (?) in August 1870 (Surrey Gazette) :-\
Again in 1877, James Terry, of Broadwater Forest, in the employ of the Tunbridge Wells Local Board, giving evidence...
Or is it a different James Terry, if so, who?
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That would make sense about Arthur.
The benefits to having GEDmatch is that it gives you a wider pool of matches. You can also triangulate matches to identify which side of the family tree they would be on. Being able to identify the segments shared is also valuable for this.
I think your Terry problem could be explored by aligning DNA matches to sides of your family tree. I've uncovered who my mystery 3x great grandparents were. Only the dad's first name was fully accurate (as in birth name) on his son's birth certificate. They also decided to change their surname to Smith - not that helpful when they're from London. There's more to the story as it is quite a complex case.
If you can get the closest relative to James Terry to test, it would really help break down the matches into sides of your tree.
OK. Thank you :-)
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Given Arthur was b c1859, with mother Ann, and Alice was b c1865, I think it more likely they're half siblings
The confusion may come from the fact that Ann Skinner Smithers' mother is also Ann, and Arthur lived with Granny
Thank you Mabel. I've said it before and I'll say it again, genealogy is like a giant escape room! ;D ;D ;D
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At Lealands in Rotherfield in 1871
Next dwelling is William Sumner (farmer) at Lealands Farm
https://www.freecen.org.uk/search_records/5904f4dbe9379091b105e7d6
This farm may perhaps have straddled more than one parish.
William Sumner died in 1884, probate for him, late of Rotherfield.
The newspapers meanwhile describe the farm as Lealand’s Farm, Groombridge.
From the 1881 census TS, James Terry was at Sewage Farm Cottage in the parish of Frant
And is in the area of Broadwater Forest and Groombridge.
So I guess he may possibly be the James Terry, labourer, employed at the Sewage Farm, Groombridge, giving evidence against some potentially naughty people reported in the South Eastern Advertiser, 24 March 1883 (I don't have access)
Is he then the James Terry, labourer, in the employ of the resident engineer of the Tunbridge Wells Commissioners, residing in Groombridge (possibly Southern Sewage Farm) and maybe giving evidence (?) in August 1870 (Surrey Gazette) :-\
Again in 1877, James Terry, of Broadwater Forest, in the employ of the Tunbridge Wells Local Board, giving evidence...
Or is it a different James Terry, if so, who?
Mmmm. That's really interesting. Thank you for that information. I will follow this update. A big thank you for taking interest in my query :-)
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So here is the 1870 story (attached)
It's actually from The Sussex Advertiser, 30 August 1870
Quite long.
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Second one, from The Kent & Sussex Courier, 10 October 1877
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Ordnance survey map from the 1870's, can zoom in
https://maps.nls.uk/view/266664541
In the middle, from top
Groombridge and the railway station, and there is Lealands, which I guess is in Rotherfield
Pan right to Broadwater Forest, which should be in the parish of Frant, and there is the sewage farm!
It may be easier to see all this on the 1890s OS map, here
https://maps.nls.uk/view/101433912
So, taken with the newspaper reports, I think it looks promising for James Terry in Rotherfield in 1871 being the chap at the sewage farm in Frant in 1881 and 1891.
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Jonwarrn, very thorough and great research. Like you pretty sure it is him. Sadly still begs the question where is the b****r in 1861 and possibly birth/1851 census. I have probably like you and others run out of ideas and searched most records.
SS
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Ordnance survey map from the 1870's, can zoom in
https://maps.nls.uk/view/266664541
In the middle, from top
Groombridge and the railway station, and there is Lealands, which I guess is in Rotherfield
Pan right to Broadwater Forest, which should be in the parish of Frant, and there is the sewage farm!
It may be easier to see all this on the 1890s OS map, here
https://maps.nls.uk/view/101433912
So, taken with the newspaper reports, I think it looks promising for James Terry in Rotherfield in 1871 being the chap at the sewage farm in Frant in 1881 and 1891.
This is such compelling evidence. You are amazing! Thank you so much. I am currently building a clearer picture of Ann Skinner and Ezekiel Smithers to add to the jigsaw which is James Terry, and then will look into this further. Once again thank you. I will keep you posted :-)
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Jonwarrn, very thorough and great research. Like you pretty sure it is him. Sadly still begs the question where is the b****r in 1861 and possibly birth/1851 census. I have probably like you and others run out of ideas and searched most records.
SS
Agreed on all accounts!
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Must admit I did spot that William was born prior to 1st marriage. Bit of a problem though. Believe he is William Henry Butcher born
BUTCHER, WILLIAM HENRY -
GRO Reference: 1873 D Quarter in TUNBRIDGE Volume 02A Page 573
Baptism image on FindMyPast. Parents William & Jane Ellen Butcher. Date 30th November 1873 Tunbridge Wells, father occupation Fly Driver (single horse cab)
SS
So I have found a different William Terry who has a British Army Service Record. This William's full name is William Thomas Terry and he was born in Bletchingly, Redhill, and was born in October 1873.The service record says that his father was James Terry from Bletchingly Surrey, and he had a younger brother called James. This William died on 8th Jan 1905.
I have found a GRO ref that has a William Thomas Terrey being born at the end of 1872 in Godstone so that's a year out from the service record. What doesn't seem to fit with "my" William is his mother's surname which is Ward.
And so the search continues!
UPDATE:
No, I don't think this William is the correct one. I have found his parents marriage certificate (James Terry and Mary Jane Ward) married in Bletchingley. Father of James is James and not Thomas.
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Ordnance survey map from the 1870's, can zoom in
https://maps.nls.uk/view/266664541
In the middle, from top
Groombridge and the railway station, and there is Lealands, which I guess is in Rotherfield
Pan right to Broadwater Forest, which should be in the parish of Frant, and there is the sewage farm!
It may be easier to see all this on the 1890s OS map, here
https://maps.nls.uk/view/101433912
So, taken with the newspaper reports, I think it looks promising for James Terry in Rotherfield in 1871 being the chap at the sewage farm in Frant in 1881 and 1891.
This is such compelling evidence. You are amazing! Thank you so much. I am currently building a clearer picture of Ann Skinner and Ezekiel Smithers to add to the jigsaw which is James Terry, and then will look into this further. Once again thank you. I will keep you posted :-)
That's a really special map you've found. You are clever! And yes I agree with you - it does look like the correct James Terry. Going back to a previous comment you made (answer 34 or page4 of this thread), I suppose James and Frances could have married and then had William. Frances then passes away, and James remarries Jane Ellen. Once I receive James and Jane Ellen's marriage certificate I will be able to see if he is a widower when he marries Jane Ellen but that will take a little while as the marriage certificate has to travel all the way to New Zealand.