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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Perthshire => Topic started by: kohlerkinfinder on Saturday 14 February 26 06:12 GMT (UK)

Title: 1781 location of Margdow of Drumchaoin
Post by: kohlerkinfinder on Saturday 14 February 26 06:12 GMT (UK)
Good evening.
I would like to view on a map the place of baptism for my 3x great-grandfather, Duncan McIntosh. The ScotlandsPeople index entry for his September 2, 1781, baptism showed Blair Atholl in the county of Perth. The actual record says [father] Duncan McIntosh in Margdow of Drumchaoin. Google tells me Drumchaoin was mentioned in relation to a christening (not Duncan's) in the Logierait/Ranock area during the late 18th century. It appears to be an old placename in the Highland region, distinct from similarly named locations in Ireland.
Your help would be appreciated.
Title: Re: 1781 location of Margdow of Drumchaoin
Post by: Wayne N on Saturday 14 February 26 06:56 GMT (UK)
Is this it?
https://www.trove.scot/place/140411

https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=16.3&lat=56.50295&lon=-4.21216&layers=257&b=ESRIWorld&o=100
Title: Re: 1781 location of Margdow of Drumchaoin
Post by: Old Bristolian on Saturday 14 February 26 10:17 GMT (UK)
There is a Margdow in Allt Cluain just south of Loch Moraig in the parish of Blair Atholl
Title: Re: 1781 location of Margdow of Drumchaoin
Post by: AlanBoyd on Saturday 14 February 26 10:23 GMT (UK)
This newspaper item mentions a Margdow in the Blair Atholl area

11 March 1826: Caledonian Mercury
Quote
LANDS IN THE HIGHLANDS OF PERTHSHIRE FOR SALE
...
Lot II.—The FARMS of MILLTOWN of INVERVACK, MARKROCHACH, MARGDOW, and DUNDAVARG, situated immediately to the south of the river Garry, across which, and exactly opposite to the lands, there is a ferry boat, and also a capital ford, leading to the Dalnacardoch turnpike road. These lands also lie within the united parishes of Blair Atholl and Strowan, and are situated about two miles west from Blair Atholl.

From the plan and measurement before referred to, it appears that the above farms contain upwards of 73 acres of arable land, and about 853 acres of hill and outfield pasture. The arable lands are extremely fertile, and are wholly exempted from being laid under water by the flooding of the Garry. There is uncommonly fine limestone on this property, which might be wrought to advantage, the rocks being of easy access and inexhaustible. The whole lands are let from year to year, with the exception of Milltown of Invervack, the lease of which expires in 1840.


Here is a map view of the area from the 1860s:

https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=15.3&lat=56.76623&lon=-3.89921&layers=257&b=ESRIWorld&o=100

You can find some of those places, but not Margdow.

There are similar newspaper items dating from 1844, but after that all references to Margdow seem to point to the place on Loch Tay highlighted in reply#1.
Title: Re: 1781 location of Margdow of Drumchaoin
Post by: Forfarian on Saturday 14 February 26 10:29 GMT (UK)
Good find, but this Margdow (in Reply #1) on the banks of Loch Tay is in the parish of Kenmore, not the parish of Blair Atholl, so it may not necessarily be the right Margdow.

The place name element marg is, I believe, from the term merkland, which is an indication of the size or value of a property, and dow is from Gaelic dubh, meaning black or dark. Could there be more than one Margdow? They key to this would be to find Drumchaoin, but so far it is eluding me.

Drum is Gaelic meaning ridge, but I don't know what the second element derives from.

Before rationalisation in 1890-ish there were dozens of small detached enclaves and exclaves of the parishes of Weem, Dull, Kenmore and Killin all round Loch Tay, but not as far as I can make out any detached bits of Blair Atholl.

The nearest kirk to this Margdow would be in the parish of Killin, and it's about 40 miles from the parish kirk of Blair Atholl. Why would they take a baby all that way, or expect the minister of Blair Atholl to travel all that way in the other direction, for the baptism?

I see that Duncan McIntosh and Janet Fraser were married in Logierait in 1769, and had four more sons, all baptised in Logierait: Angus 1773, Donald 1776, Alexander 1779, and William 1783. Duncan junior fits neatly into the gap. Perhaps their stay in Margdow was very short? Have you viewed these other baptisms to see if they contain any clues?

Edit - I wrote the above before seeing Alan Boyd's response.
Title: Re: 1781 location of Margdow of Drumchaoin
Post by: AlanBoyd on Saturday 14 February 26 10:30 GMT (UK)
There is a Margdow in Allt Cluain just south of Loch Moraig in the parish of Blair Atholl

linked to here on the same mapping as in my previous response

https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=15.1&lat=56.77143&lon=-3.79715&layers=257&b=ESRIWorld&o=100

this is ENE from Blair Atholl so cannot be the same as that mentioned in the newspaper items.
Title: Re: 1781 location of Margdow of Drumchaoin
Post by: Forfarian on Saturday 14 February 26 10:36 GMT (UK)
TThe FARMS of MILLTOWN of INVERVACK, MARKROCHACH, MARGDOW, and DUNDAVARG, situated immediately to the south of the river Garry[/quote

Invervack and Maragrochach https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=16.1&lat=56.76441&lon=-3.89738&layers=257&b=ESRIWorld&o=100

Margaret and Dondavaig are right beside Invervack at the extreme left of the lower portion of the maps at https://maps.nls.uk/view/74400314 - could they be Margdow and Dundavarg?
Title: Re: 1781 location of Margdow of Drumchaoin
Post by: Forfarian on Saturday 14 February 26 11:48 GMT (UK)
Google tells me Drumchaoin was mentioned in relation to a christening (not Duncan's) in the Logierait/Ranock area during the late 18th century.
Do not trust Google or anything else you find online unless it's an image of an original document.

There is no such place as Ranock. It's Rannoch.

However there is a small detached exclave of the parish of Logierait immediately east of the foot of Loch Rannoch, partly surrounded by the parish of Blair Atholl. See https://maps.nls.uk/view/74400313

In this enclave there is a farm or croft named as Maragdubh https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=16.2&lat=56.71116&lon=-4.12332&layers=257&b=ESRIWorld&o=100 - could this be 'your' Margdow?

However I am still unable to find Drumchaoin.
Title: Re: 1781 location of Margdow of Drumchaoin
Post by: kohlerkinfinder on Saturday 14 February 26 15:17 GMT (UK)
Thank you, all. Your replies have been very helpful. I will look at the baptisms of the siblings of Duncan Jr. for more clues.
Title: Re: 1781 location of Margdow of Drumchaoin
Post by: kohlerkinfinder on Saturday 14 February 26 16:31 GMT (UK)
I see that Duncan McIntosh and Janet Fraser were married in Logierait in 1769, and had four more sons, all baptised in Logierait: Angus 1773, Donald 1776, Alexander 1779, and William 1783. Duncan junior fits neatly into the gap. Perhaps their stay in Margdow was very short? Have you viewed these other baptisms to see if they contain any clues?

1769 Duncan McIntosh to Janet Fraser - both from Drumchaoin
1773 Angus - in Drumchaoin
1776 Donald - in Drumchaoin
1779 Alexander - in Drumachoin
1783 William - in Drumchoin - several others on page baptized same place; a few also in Drumchastle

Many thanks.

I could upload the images, but I am unsure if I can upload them as a group, or if it requires a separate post for each image.
Title: Re: 1781 location of Margdow of Drumchaoin
Post by: Throth on Tuesday 24 February 26 23:19 GMT (UK)
Interesting little puzzle. 

We had the baptisms of Duncan McIntosh's five children and had not bothered to get all of the locations as they were outside of 'our' parish of Blair Atholl. As we knew that 1st and 4th were Drumachuine we assumed that the others were likewise.  We are using the spelling 'Drumachuine' as that is the title used by the heir to Clan Robertson, even if the Clan no longer owns the land.

Angus Campbell and his wife Janet McDiarmid were living at Black Park of Drumachuine in October 1781 when their daughter Janet was born / baptised (Blair Atholl OPR). Their first child, Margaret, was born at Black Park of Murlagan in July 1770. Now Murlagan is the old name for the Dunalastair estate (i.e. Robertson), and Black Park is just to the north of Dunalastair. After the '45, the Forfeited Estates Commissions tried to settle goverment ex-soldiers at Black Park as a sort of militia. The whole area was deep-ploughed and a deep drainage ditch dug to change the moorland into reasonable land for crops and livestock. The settlement 'Maragdubh' is just to the west. In Gaelic it means 'Black Pudding', so it was encouragement for a tenant - rich black soil!

Anyway, this is a sort of area that you are looking for, not the Killiecrankie site.

It may seem strange that the baptisms of children born at Drumachuine and Drumcastle are mentioned in the Blair Atholl OPRs as they are not in that parish. James Stobie's map of Perthshire, 1783, shows Easter and Wester Drumachewan to the west of Mount Alexander (Dunalastair). It also shows that it was in a detachment part of the parish of Logierait, surrounded by the parish of Fortingall.

Detached sections of a parish often arose when a principal land-owner possessed small pieces of ground in distant places, and this may be the case here. Drumachuine, and Drumcastle next to it, were part of the Duke of Atholl's estate. In January 1738, two of the Dukes vassals, Donald McDonald of Sandwick and Alan Stewart, wadsetter of Innerhadden, agreed to an exchange of land. Alan Stewart gave up his right to Drumachuine and Drumcastle to Donald McDonald who, in return, gave up his right to Innerhadden to Alan Stewart.

Throth (www.borenich.co.uk)

Title: Re: 1781 location of Margdow of Drumchaoin
Post by: Forfarian on Tuesday 24 February 26 23:55 GMT (UK)
Aaahh! Thank you, Throth.

Here's the relevant bit of Stobie's map with Drumachewan and Drumcastle.
https://maps.nls.uk/view/74400313

And the first edition OS six-inch with Druimchastle and Maragdubh.
https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=15.2&lat=56.70671&lon=-4.14089&layers=257&b=ESRIWorld&o=100

QED
Title: Re: 1781 location of Margdow of Drumchaoin
Post by: kohlerkinfinder on Wednesday 25 February 26 14:58 GMT (UK)
Many thanks, Throth and Forfarian.