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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Topic started by: BelfastBoy56 on Friday 06 February 26 15:31 GMT (UK)
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Gallagher - Rodgers
I am looking for info about my grandparents, birth, baptism and/or death dates ???.
Only info I do have is as follows:
My Father’s birth certificate:
Name: Robert Frederick John Rodgers born 21 Jul 1931
Father: Robert Frederick Rodgers
Mother: Kathleen Rodgers formerly Gallagher.
Grandparents marriage certificate: 7 Dec 1929 Long Tower Church, Derry
Robert Frederick Rodgers Full Father: John Rodgers
Kathleen Gallagher Full Father: Unknown
1929 has Robert listed at Ebrington Barracks, Londonderry.
1930 has Robert and Kathleen listed at Pontefract Barracks, Yorkshire.
Any info would be greatly appreciated.
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You neglected to tell us the occupations on the birth and marriage registrations, and also religions. Important information.
Also, have you found them on any census returns?
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Long Tower Church in Derry City is Catholic.
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A possibility for OP's Kathleen Gallagher is the Catherine Gallagher, age 6, an adopted child, living in Long Tower St. Derry, on the 1911 census.
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Londonderry/Londonderry_Urban__2_/Long_Tower_Street/602591/ (https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Londonderry/Londonderry_Urban__2_/Long_Tower_Street/602591/)
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Difficult. ???
My Father’s birth certificate:
Name: Robert Frederick John Rodgers born 21 Jul 1931
Father: Robert Frederick Rodgers Mother: Kathleen Rodgers formerly Gallagher.
1930 has Robert and Kathleen listed at Pontefract Barracks, Yorkshire.
With a presumed year typo, doesn't make sense, there is no birth registration in England 1930/31 in civil or army births. If he was born N.I. then it might give his father's current address as Pontefract Barracks. Three addresses are asked for: Place of birth, Dwelling-place of father, and Residence of informant.
Where was he born 1931, who registered the birth & where? What was Kathleen's residence on the 1929 marriage cert and John Rodger's occupation? Regiment, if mentioned on marriage. Was Robert Frederick Rodgers the soldier Irish?
As you are BelfastBoy presume they perhaps died there / in N.I & not England?
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We are missing some details from the births and marriages posted at the start by Belfast Boy.
However, in the meanwhile there is a possible ….
Robert Frederick Rodgers baptised 11 March 1903 in Pitsmoor Sheffield
Son of John (steel melter ) and Ann (nee Lockwood).
Parents married in 1888
Birth Rego
RODGERS, ROBERT FREDERICK mother - LOCKWOOD
GRO Reference: 1903 J Quarter in SHEFFIELD Volume 09C Page 615
In 1921 census Robert Frederick is a private in Barracks at Pembroke Dock
York and Lancaster Regiment, 1st battalion
1930 electoral rolls has Robert Frederick and Kathleen Rodgers in barracks at Pontefract.
1954 through to 1965 electoral rolls Selly Oak Birmingham has Robert F and Catherine Rodgers. Runcorn Road - Fir Ave, and later Chestnut Rd.
Robert F J Rodgers appears with them in some instances.
Robert F Rodgers (born 1903) died in Birmingham in 1965.
Before we can move forward, it is necessary to know ALL the detail from the birth and marriage certificates mentioned in the opening post, otherwise we might be looking at the wrong people.
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Certainly helps, is his first post.
Well Robert's Frederick's 1903 Sheffield birth, and baptism 11 Mar 1903 Christ Church, Pitsmoor (son of John a Steel-melter & Ann of 161 Woodside Lane) plus 1965 Birmingham death are suggested records by Ancestry from both the 1921 and the 1930 Pontefract Electoral Roll.
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/collections/63151/records/35271185
https://www.findmypast.co.uk/transcript?id=GBC/1921/RG15/27374/0031/03
'A' Company, 1st Battalion, York & Lancaster Regiment, Llanion Barracks, Pembroke Dock
https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/side-by-side/#zoom=15.6&lat=51.69771&lon=-4.93537&layers=6&right=osm
Mother nee LOCKWOOD, married Sheffield Q3 1888 [1 July Wicker Parish Church, Sheffield].
1901 census + marriage, birth, baptism etc. just don't see 1911.
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/collections/7814/records/27865216
The son looks to have married in Birmingham too: RODGERS Robert F J & MAY Joan Q3 Sep 1962 Birmingham 9c 1001.
A Kathleen Rodgers died Birmingham 6th July 1999 aged 87 (DOB 15 Oct 1911) but can eliminate that as was full age (21 or more) when married.
Another died 21 Nov 2006 Shropshire born 1905 with Probate Birmingham (Findmypast). Or did she return to Derry/Belfast?
... asking about the Rodgers side under Ireland seems strange though.
EDIT: Neale must have been editing his post when I replied as the apparent duplication that now appears was not there previously, only the 1921 census and 1930 electoral roll were mentioned.
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Robert Frederick John Rodgers born 21 Jul 1931
DEATH
Robert Frederick John Gallagher
Death Age 71
Birth Date 21 Jul. 1931
Registration Date Apr. 2003
Registration District Kings Lynn
Norfolk
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All this hard work from you.
I do hope that BelfastBoy56 comes back to help and clarify.
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That Shropshire death aged 100 is wrong.
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/collections/7579/records/1021921303
Edit: as that Kathleen was nee May, wife of a Charles https://findagrave.com/memorial/16767482/kathleen-rodgers and appears with same DOB as death 17 Dec 1905 on 1939 Register in Woking, Surrey with him.
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Jon-ni
Is there any reason that you keep giving links to Ancestry website subscription page?
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I'll put the www. in, without it works for me, has that sorted?
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It works for me but that is because I have a subscription. I don’t think it works otherwise.
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I don’t think it works otherwise.
Quite right, heywood. All I see (without an Ancestry subscription) is the Join Subscription page.
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Firstly thank you so much for everyone’s input. I think the following details are those that people have asked to be clarified, but apologies if I haven’t answered all questions.
1931 Birth registration details for Robert Frederick John Rodgers
Address listed as 73 York Street;
Birth registered by Father Corporal RF Rodgers - Yorkshire Regiment address same: 73 York Street.
Deducing born Northern Ireland - York Street in Derry near Ebrington Barracks.
1929 Marriage certificate details: Married in Roman Catholic Church at Long Tower.
Robert F Rodgers: No mention of Regiment, only occupation: Soldier and Father John Rodgers Labourer.
Kathleen Gallagher: Factory Worker living at 10 Long Tower Street.
Witnesses: George Arthur McDonald and Annie Friel.
Other information that has been found and I have actually verified as much as I can is:
Robert Frederick Rodgers parents were John Rodgers and Ann Rodgers, formerly Lockwood. Father Steel Furnaceman, living in Bingley Street, Sheffield.
They would have appeared to have separated between 1901 and 1911. Annie can be found as a boarder with a year old daughter Edith Helen, Walter is 19 and a boarder, John aged 44 is also a boarder. All at different addresses.
My father RFJ Rodgers did remarry in Birmingham - Joan May and his death was registered in King’s Lynn, Apr 2003.
Robert Frederick Rodgers [Grandfather] was not Irish.
The rationale for looking at Irish records is deducing that Kathleen was Irish, perhaps born in Derry since she was registered on the marriage certificate at 10 Long Tower Street.
However if Kathleen and Catherine Gallagher mentioned in the 1911 Census in Wexflyer's reply are the same what are the chances of finding out information on an adopted child's parents. :(
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Welcome BelfastBoy. Your 1st reply has been slow to show up (after being held up because you are new), but now your replies will appear in real time.
Thanks for supplying the extra birth and marriage detail which confirms that information supplied in reply #5 was correct.
Have you confirmed the following death.
Deaths Jun 1965
RODGERS ROBERT F Age 62 Birmingham 9c 333
I assume that Robert and Catherine were still in Ireland in 1939, as I cannot find them in the 1939 Register in England.
Finding a death for Catherine/ Kathleen would be useful as it might give us a more accurate date of birth to help trace her.
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I think the 1911 census for Catherine Gallagher living in Long Tower Street is probably the correct one. Even though she was adopted, she still seems to have retained her surname. She may be able to be found.
Often ‘Adopted’ children were orphaned or illegitimate children of relatives.
Have your searched here for a birth record?
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie
Looking at other people in that same census household -----
Lizzie Bradley (42) married Bernard Doherty (32) in Derry in 1909
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/marriage_returns/marriages_1909/10035/5650123.pdf
Did Catherine belong to Lizzie or another member of the Bradley family?
The Bradleys seem to be children of Hugh Bradley (a carpenter) and Sarah Hartin / Harkin
Re-posting 1911 census link
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Londonderry/Londonderry_Urban__2_/Long_Tower_Street/602591/
1901 census for the Bradley family
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Londonderry/No__2_Urban__South_Ward/Gordon_Place/1536112/
Sarah Bradley age 70, died in 1908
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/deaths_returns/deaths_1908/05505/4542303.pdf
Hugh Bradley had died in 1888
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/deaths_returns/deaths_1888/06160/4760371.pdf
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I assume that Robert and Catherine were still in Ireland in 1939, as I cannot find them in the 1939 Register in England.
She should, but if Robert was in the Army still, he would not appear.
Deducing born Northern Ireland - York Street in Derry near Ebrington Barracks
yes - have to be registered in District of birth.
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I assume that Robert and Catherine were still in Ireland in 1939, as I cannot find them in the 1939 Register in England.
She should, but if Robert was in the Army still, he would not appear.
Please note what I have written. If they were not living in England in 1939, Catherine won't be in the English register of 1939.
Do you have an address for them in 1939?
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I was merely saying Robert would not appear in the English 1939 register if he was residing in England in an Army base as an active soldier, nor if serving abroad. Catherine should appear if living in England but if you looked for her by herself and did not find then I accept the likely answer she was in Ireland.
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I was merely saying Robert would not appear in the English 1939 register if he was residing in England in an Army base as an active soldier, nor if serving abroad. Catherine should appear if living in England but if you looked for her by herself and did not find then I accept the likely answer she was in Ireland.
We already have Robert's birth details, so we are not looking for him.
What we are looking for is more detail for the birth of Catherine. All this explained in my previous post, which perhaps you missed reading. ???
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No I didn't misread, the OP originally asked for birth and death details of both, which was why we both spent time looking independently, am aware details of Robert were pre-known.
Obviously you prefer to tackle alone, so will unfollow and let you find her DOB without further interruption. :-*
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Once again thanks to all for research so far.
I spent a lot of yesterday looking into the Bradley/Doherty family but didn’t really come to any conclusions. All the residents of the 1911 census with Catherine Gallagher adopted child were alive when marriage in 1929 took place, also if she was daughter of a relative would they not have known who her father was [marriage certificate states father unknown].
I have tried looking for Robert Frederick John Rodgers age 8 in the 1939 register - logic being that if I could find my father he would hopefully be with his mother, because as stated his father was in the Army so wouldn’t be listed.
I didn’t find anything so looking like Kathleen and my father were in Ireland. My grandfather being in the army could have been posted anywhere.
I have looked at several records on GRONI both in the name of Kathleen and Catherine Gallagher between 1900 and 1907, [her age being full on marriage certificate[ and am in the process of trying to verify or eliminate the possibilities, but also thinking that the first verified records for my grandmother were in the name of Kathleen: 1929 Marriage / 1930 Electoral Roll - Pontefract / 1931 Derry Birth Certificate of my father.
Only the latter Electoral Rolls 1954-1965 have been in the name of Catherine, also having purchased my grandfather’s death certificate, it looks like it was C Rodgers, Widow of 9 Chestnut Road, informant.
So should I be concentrating on looking for a birth of Kathleen not Catherine Gallagher.
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Kathleen and Catherine, at least in my Irish family, are interchangeable names from the name Catherine.
Kathleen is often used as a pet name and once in recent times, as a deliberate attempt, in the nicest way to get away from naming a grandchild Catherine but yet paying tribute to the child's grandmother.
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Hello Belfast Boy
I agree, that Kathleen and Catherine are interchangeable names. We know that she used both Kathleen and Catherine, as seen in the records found so far.
I spent a lot of yesterday looking into the Bradley/Doherty family but didn’t really come to any conclusions.
I wondered if someone on that 1911 census was a Godparent to Kathleen.
Depending on how old she was when adopted, it is quite possible she never knew the names of either parent.
I also looked for Catherine and child in the 1939 register. Not found in England, but as an Army family, they could have been posted anywhere in the world.
What I have not had time to do is look at ALL the births for Catherine/ Kathleen Gallagher in Derry (~1903-1908), or for Catherine with a mother Gallagher, and then back track and check for deaths of one or both of her parents before 1911.
It will be a little time consuming, but I can’t think of a short cut to this, and it may bring results.
Don’t assume she WAS of full age at marriage. Plenty of people lie about their age so they can marry.
It is useful to know that Catherine was still alive when her husband died. We are looking for her death after 1965. She may be under a different name, if she re-married.
Do you know why Robert Frederick John Rodgers who died in 2003, was recorded on his death with the surname Gallagher?
Do you remember anything of your grandmother Catherine after 1965, or have any photos of her with the family after this date? For example - Did she attend your father's 2nd marriage.
I'm looking for anything that might give her place of abode after 1965.
There is this possible electoral roll. Not sure of it, and have not checked further.
1967 -1968 - 1970 Birmingham, All Saints, Soho; 48 Clarence Road - Catherine ROGERS
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Just another thought. Have you considered getting your grandfather’s military records to see what information they contain?
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Once again thanks to all for research so far.
I spent a lot of yesterday looking into the Bradley/Doherty family but didn’t really come to any conclusions. All the residents of the 1911 census with Catherine Gallagher adopted child were alive when marriage in 1929 took place, also if she was daughter of a relative would they not have known who her father was [marriage certificate states father unknown].
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So should I be concentrating on looking for a birth of Kathleen not Catherine Gallagher.
If Kathleen/Catherine was a daughter of a relative then the father's name would not necessarily be known. Especially so if the mother was the relative as the mother may not know or may not have wished to tell.
Also the relationship between the parents and the adoptive parents need not necessarily be a close one in terms of the family ie could have been a cousin's daughter rather than say a the child of a sibling of either the Bradley or Doherty family. This is because in close families a child may have been informally adopted within the wider family, by a childless couple or a couple who married relatively late and who may be older and/or possibly having trouble conceiving. It was not unknown that parenting a child could encourage the conception of a child by an older couple.
From the census Bernard Doherty is shown as the brother in law of Patrick Bradley. This might mean, taking the simplest idea, that Elizabeth Doherty is the sister of Patrick Bradley ie she was nee Bradley.
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Here is a link to the marriage of Bernard Doherty and Lizzie Bradley on 2/8/1909 with one of the witnesses being a Patrick Gallagher.
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/marriage_returns/marriages_1909/10035/5650123.pdf
This is of the possible???? adoptive parents who were older.
Who is Patrick Gallagher?
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Here is a link to the marriage of Bernard Doherty and Lizzie Bradley on 2/8/1909 with one of the witnesses being a Patrick Gallagher.
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/marriage_returns/marriages_1909/10035/5650123.pdf
Links to the family records were posted in reply# 16.
BelfastBoys last post says he has researched this family.
I agree that witness Patrick Gallagher is worth looking at.
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I'm confused.
I would have thought the placement of the wee girl with this family and possible reasons would have been relevant. Also to see who the siblings were to the couple and if the couple themselves had any children....
There are a couple of other interesting Long Tower vicinity Census groupings that were intriguing but if these have all been investigated.
Cheers over and out..... :)
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Neale1961 Reply #16 stated that Catherine in the 1911 Census with the Bradley family ‘appears’ to have retained surname Gallagher.
If this were the case and it was her father’s surname then surely all we are missing is the father’s forename. Just a thought, not sure how it would help, as there could be all sorts of reasons why 'Father Unknown' was entered.
Although I didn’t come to any conclusions re the Bradley/Doherty family, I haven’t gone to ‘nth degree’ researching them.
Referring to Neale1961’s reply #24 regarding researching ALL births, I have found the following so far:
1900 to 1908 in Derry:
Catherine Gallagher 8/5/1900 Mother’s Maiden Name: Toner
Catherine Gallagher 16/8/1902 Mother’s Maiden Name: McElwaine
Catherine Gallagher 30/9/1903 Mother’s Maiden Name: McBridge
Catherine Gallagher 30/10/1903 Mother’s Maiden Name: Magee
At present I have only looked at the Magee family and in 1911 Census they are altogether, as I couldn’t find any death records for Hugh and Betty [Magee] Gallagher prior to 1929 marriage, I discounted this family. But did note that birth registration appears in name of Catherine but on 1911 census she is listed as Kathleen, this interchangeability certainly helps to understand why my grandmother appears to have records in both names.
Robert Frederick John Rodgers’ death being registered as Gallagher, not 100% sure why, I know that when I couldn’t find death in the name of Rodgers I looked for one in his mother’s maiden name being the only other one I could think of and came up with the 2003 death, and I know he was living in King’s Lynn.
I don’t have any memories of my grandmother, I was born in Belfast but came to England age 6 when my mother died, and my father never talked about his or my mother’s families. Only picture I do have is attached, my grandmother at my mother and father’s wedding in 1931, she is the first one on the left [wearing a fur coat]. Sorry no idea if she attended the second marriage.
I did apply for Robert Frederick Rodgers military records giving date of birth as 1903, I didn’t know his service number, and got a reply that they could not match up the name with that birth year.
Question for shanreagh: You said there are a couple of other censuses for Long Tower area that were intriguing, can you please give me some more info on these. Thank you.
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The census grouping/s that I found intriguing was one where Bradley, Gallagher and Doherty people were in a census together. Not sure if any were your people but they had names you were researching in an area where your people lived. It was not the huge listing of people at an institution that is also in one of the Censuses that has all your names but in a smaller one of 10-15 people.
Now I know I should have put it up even if the response may have been it had been seen before or was not relevant. Sorry. I'll get some intestinal fortitude so I'm not put off so easily again.
I cannot instantly locate it again but I will continue to look.
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Thank you shanreagh...any path to follow and eliminate is better than me not having a clue where to look :-\
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Not sure if I would agree with Neale1961's comment that Kate/Catherine retained her father's surname, i.e. Gallagher. Perhaps she did, but would be useful if Neale could elaborate on why he thinks so?
To me, there are multiple possibilities.
Gallagher father's surname
Gallagher father's surname, but registered under an unknown mother's surname, if she was illegitimate
Gallagher mother's surname, but may or may not have been registered.
Let me give an example of how difficult this sort of case can be to track down, from my personal experience.
A great-aunt of mine from Wexford was adopted by a Bootle family in England, believed to be distant relatives.
Why? No one knew or knows - not her siblings, not her children. She was a perfectly legitimate child, the eldest even. The family has pondered that question for over 100 years with no answer.
As for what was the actual link my great-aunt had to her adoptive family, that took me 30 years to figure out. She was sent from Wexford to England at a very young age. What took the 30 years to determine was that her adoptive mother turned out in turn to herself be the adoptive daughter of a first cousin of my great-aunt's father, but born a full generation earlier than him. Her adoptive grandfather had been in England since roughly when her father was born - so could not have been close. Her adoptive grandfather was born in the early 1840s, so the only record of him in Ireland is his baptismal record - nothing else.
One lesson from all this? Katherine could have had a very strange relationship to her adoptive family. Another lesson is that she may have been legitimate - some adopted children were, even though parents alive and married.
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Sadly, aged 70, I probably won't have 30 years to get to the bottom of my dilema ;D but I do thank you for giving me an insight into the difficulties there are to trace family facts.
I am hoping to try again to find my grandfather's military records, so any info anyone has on that front would be greatly appreciated.
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Thanks Wexflyer. Your own instance reinforces a point I was trying to make also that adoptions, in close, meaning well known to each other across uncles/aunts or even gt Uncles/aunts, were often made to wider family ie cousins.
You have brought up about generations and ages so that an adoption may be made in a wider family but the relationship cannot always be reliably inferred by the ages of those concerned. My mother being a case in point - arriving in the world with a set of nieces and nephews who were older than her.
Because of this wide spread of relations her family was always very cautious about assigning a polite relaionship solely because of age. If you were a cousin and you were 6 you called your 46 years cousin by their first name and not with an honorary aunt/uncle name.
And the relevance of all this to the Long Tower family? Perhaps all of those in the census were cousins but were assigned a polite relationship (of daughter) because a younger cousin was being brought up by older cousins ie in a parent-child relationship
The census says that Kathleen was the adopted child of the head of the family being Patrick Bradley. If she had been the adopted child of Bernard and Elizabeth Doherty she might have been referred to as Patrick Bradley's adopted niece?
A fascinating and intriguing family BelfastBoy56 and we'll get there, don't you worry....... :)
ETA Then of course the relationship between everyone may not even be as close as aunts, uncles, cousins but of 'connections'. We had connections being the relations/families of people our cousins married, that is the easy version. We also have connections to people where the connection was back in the mists of time, most notably via another Irish family who came out on the same ship from Ireland to NZ with my gt grandfather and his family.
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I am hoping to try again to find my grandfather's military records, so any info anyone has on that front would be greatly appreciated.
I haven't looked, but unfortunately a large percentage of Great War era British soldier service records went up in flames in WWII, just to warn you. Courtesy of the Luftwaffe.
There is an armed services sub-board on here, with some real experts. I would recommend posting a separate query there.
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Great point, shanreagh, so if she was adopted child of Patrick Bradley, would Patrick have had to have been married? Not sure where it would lead finding out...
You also mentioned Patrick Gallagher being a witness at the marriage of Bernard and Lizzie, not sure how to go down that path either...
Thank you Wexflyer - will head over there asap and make a post, at the moment just looking to lay down in a quiet dark room somewhere ???
Once again really do appreciate all the research and help :)
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Did any of the adults on the 1911 census leave a will when they passed away?
In the case I mentioned myself, my big breakthrough was to obtain the English will of my great-aunt's adoptive "grandfather".
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Take you mean Patrick Bradley, Bernard and Lizzie Doherty - Good point, that's my weekend sorted, another avenue for me to look at over the coming days. Thank you.
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Take you mean Patrick Bradley, Bernard and Lizzie Doherty - Good point, that's my weekend sorted, another avenue for me to look at over the coming days. Thank you.
Ha ha I bet you wondered what you were going to do this weekend.....joined by several others of us no doubt from several continents/countries....
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Not sure if I would agree with Neale1961's comment that Kate/Catherine retained her father's surname, i.e. Gallagher. Perhaps she did, but would be useful if Neale could elaborate on why he thinks so?
Wexflyer, I don’t think that at all. I have never said that. You are mistaken.
Do take the time to read what I have actually written.
I think the 1911 census for Catherine Gallagher living in Long Tower Street is probably the correct one. Even though she was adopted, she still seems to have retained her surname. She may be able to be found.
AND ….
What I have not had time to do is look at ALL the births for Catherine/ Kathleen Gallagher in Derry (~1903-1908), or for Catherine with a mother Gallagher, and then back track and check for deaths of one or both of her parents before 1911.
It will be a little time consuming, but I can’t think of a short cut to this, and it may bring results.
What a lot of wasted time on this thread, because Rootchatters are not reading earlier posts!
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Neale1961 my apologies if I misremembered, or misunderstood. I know instances like this have have annoyed myself on occasion. All I can say is that it can sometimes be difficult to remember all the details of multipage threads, especially when reading other threads also.
In the end, we are all just trying to be helpful.
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In the end, we are all just trying to be helpful.
Agreed. :)
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So now that we have heavy rain warnings here in summer in NZ all weekend can we have a head's up on what we should be trying to find.....
I don't find it especially edifying to be part of a group told we are going over old ground, even though we may have been albeit inadvertently. I do this when searching and I call it 'going round the traps' as I've found even when you think you have been there done that carefully looking again does sometimes yield a result. So that is why I am keen to look at the BDMs of all those on the census, not just Kathleen. Also ponder on the wording of things......
So from this point on
Who are we looking for
What are we looking for eg BDMs? places associated with families? Relationships?
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BelfastBoy
I am treading carefully here because we cannot name people who are still living, and I don’t know (or need to know) your family story.
Are there children from your father’s other marriage who may have grown up knowing their grandmother, Catherine Gallagher? - where she lived in old age, and where and when she died.
I can see that there was at a daughter from the marriage of Robert RODGERS with Esther SPENCE. That child was born in Birmingham in 1955 and was named after her grandmother Catherine.
I also see that Esther died in Belfast in 1962.
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/204636963/esther-rodgers
Is it possible that grandmother Catherine returned to family in Ireland after her husband had died in 1965?
Maybe some looking in old newspapers for death notices / obits could help.
Just a few other thoughts for you to consider and maybe explore.
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Sorry if this is old ground but in 1911, next door to Patrick Bradley, Bernard and Elizabeth (Bradley) Doherty and young Catherine Gallagher at no. 78 Long Tower Street was the Gallagher family at no. 76 Long Tower Street, comprising Alexander Gallagher (absent), his wife Winifred Crossan and family and what looks like mother Crossan. When Alexander and Winifred married in 1892, it was witnessed by a Lizzie Bradley (the same one who went on to marry Bernard Doherty?).
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Londonderry/Londonderry_Urban__2_/Long_Tower_Street/602589/
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/marriage_returns/marriages_1892/10623/5870371.pdf
All common names of course and ripe for co-incidence. Anyhow, I couldn't find anything obvious to connect young Catherine to these Gallaghers, but since I couldn't see any explicit reference to the "next door" Gallaghers posted thus far, I'm just offering it up in case anyone wants to try and have more success.
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Apologies for delay in getting back to everyone, as a newbie I am amazed and grateful for the lengths you all go to providing help, also apologies for repeating any facts but I’ll to reply to latest posts.
shanreagh:
We are looking for my grandmother’s details, Catherine/Kathleen Rodgers, formerly Gallagher.
I have now verified most facts about my grandfather Robert Frederick Rodgers, with exception of his army details which I am in the process of tracking down.
Getting back to my grandmother, the only known facts are her marriage 1929 in Derry; 1930 listed at Pontefract Barracks; my father’s birth 1931 in Derry and listed at addresses 1954-1965 in Birmingham, Warwickshire. I have no other details at all so looking for birth, death, possible second marriage, electoral listing between 1931 and 1954 or after 1965.
Wexflyer:
Good point, will certainly go down this route in PRONI.
Neal1961:
Regards to other family members, not an avenue I can explore as estranged for over 40 years now.
It is unlikely, but not ruling it out that Catherine might have returned to Ireland, and I will certainly look to research newspapers for both Ireland and England.
gaffy:
Over the weekend I have been looking for Gallagher families in the area.
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Have you thought of a DNA test?
Do you know when and where Catherine/Kathleen died ?
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Will look into any DNA links, never thought of that, :) and only known facts surrounding Catherine start with marriage in 1929, stating father unknown and end with electoral roll address in 1965 which is making tracking her down very hard as we are all finding out :'(
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Esther Rodgers that died 20 May 1962 aged 30. Belfast Telegraph 21 May 1962.
https://findmypast.co.uk/image-viewer?issue=BL/0002318/19620521&page=2
20 May at Belfast City Hospital, Esther, wife of Frederick Rodgers. Funeral from her late residence 57 Hooker Street tomorrow (Tuesday) to the City Cemetery. Regretted by Husband and Family, also Father, Mother, Brothers and Sisters.
She is the only one in the plot, no subsequent interments.
https://online.belfastcity.gov.uk/find-burial-records/BurialRecordDetails.aspx?RecordID=6899.1387
https://discovereverafter.com/profile/27917593
There is no death for a C or K Rog begins with on GRONI 1965 up to 1976 [excluding a Newry death 1966 aged 59 & two born pre-1900]. Feb 1976 the latest we can search from home and finding a newspaper notice in newspapers without a year/date is often hard. Nothing on Everafter leaps out in the various Council cemeteries elsewhere in N.I.
British Newspaper Archive has the local weeklies + Belfast Telegraph and News Letter. The Irish News the Catholic orientated paper is only on Irish Newspaper Archives. If Catherine did die in Belfast she might have been interred in Milltown and records for there are not online.
Derry Cemetery records online only run to 1961 https://www.derrystrabane.com/services/cemeteries/cemetery-records
Re Wills: PRONI has paper copies of Wills & Admins, but only to 1965 indexed online, thereafter have to order using references found in the index - the bound Yearly Calendars of Wills on the shelves and consult in person, likely not practical, or pay them to.
Obviously she might not have died in N.I or not as Rodgers. However, a couple of 5 year range searches by GRONI would cost you £14 and the index info they email back with results would have date of death, DOB (as supplied by informant, DOB's replace age 1973), so enabling a home birth search on GRONI & IrishGen. I think are enhanced index results so may include marital status also widow/married.
1976-1980 inclusive followed by 1981-1985 takes you to when she was c.80. From their email reply with index results you get the option, if desire, to purchase one cert for £8 more. With death date could narrow down newspaper searches to 2 to 3 days, just reading rather than relying on OCR to have picked up.
See Elwyn's reply https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=849427.msg7168488#msg7168488
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Thank you Jon_ni for in-depth reply. Much appreciated. Will certainly take a closer look at all info supplied over the coming days and follow any avenues I can.
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In the absence of a civil birth registration for Catherine Gallagher, I wonder if a baptism record might be found for her.
There are records online for Long Tower Church, Derry.
https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0373
Baptisms appear to be available up to 1900
https://www.johngrenham.com/records/rc_church.php?churchid=0373&parish=St.%20Columb%27s,%20Derry%20city
Perhaps someone here might know if it is possible to access anything after 1900.
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Not from home, when John Grenham refers to the The Genealogy Centre, Derry he means RootsIreland. Here is their own coverage list (the same) transcribed from the registers directly rather than from the NLI's microfilm https://rootsireland.ie/derry/online-sources.php
JG is missing an a = St Columba's [differentiates it from St Columb's the nearby Anglican catherdral].
Would have to contact the Rev Gerard Mongan / Parish Secretary https://longtowerchurch.org
Historic, opened 1788. History via above and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_Columba%27s_Church,_Long_Tower
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Apologies not replied before. Been taking a look at links, and at present come to the conclusion that a trip to Derry is to be planned for later this year. But will keep looking in the meantime. And again thanks to all who have contributed.