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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lincolnshire => Topic started by: worth on Friday 30 January 26 20:46 GMT (UK)

Title: Looking for George Frederick Green born 1906ish
Post by: worth on Friday 30 January 26 20:46 GMT (UK)
Hi
I am looking for George Frederick Green who was born around 1906, possibly in Gainsborough Lincolnshire. On his marriage certificate in 1926 he gave his name as Fred Green age 21 married to Hilda Boswell in Gainsborough, he was living at living at 42 Bridge Street, Gainsborough and Hilda at 3 Winns Yard in Gainsborough. His father is also named on the certificate as Fred Green a bricklayers labourer.
George Frederick Green died in 1953 in Gainsborough, under that name. Im struggling to find a birth for him as im not sure whether to look for a Fred Green or a George Frederick Green, any help appreciated x
Title: Re: Looking for George Frederick Green born 1906ish
Post by: Neale1961 on Friday 30 January 26 21:51 GMT (UK)
What is George Frederick's occupation when he married?
Who are the witnesses at the marriage?

Have you found George Frederick in the 1939 register?
Title: Re: Looking for George Frederick Green born 1906ish
Post by: mckha489 on Friday 30 January 26 22:02 GMT (UK)
BOSWELL is a traveller’s name.

Where was Hilda in 1921? 
She is at 22 Wilson Street, Gainsborough in 1939, with children, married. But no George Frederick senior.
That address features a fair amount in later newspapers.
Title: Re: Looking for George Frederick Green born 1906ish
Post by: Neale1961 on Friday 30 January 26 22:05 GMT (UK)
there is this 1921 census Gainsborough, Lincolnshire, England

George William Green , Head, 45 Years 8 Months, farm labourer, born Gainsborough
Grace Annie Green, wife, 40 Years 2 Months
Charles Fredorick Green, son 15 Years 10 Months, Riveters Labourer, born Gainsborough
Amy Green, daughter 4 Years 8 Months, born Gainsborough

In earlier census, the father has different occupations.


ADDED - No I don't think this is the correct family.
Title: Re: Looking for George Frederick Green born 1906ish
Post by: worth on Friday 30 January 26 22:27 GMT (UK)
Neale 1961
Fred Greens occupation on the 1926 certificate is Horseman in Livery stables.
The witnesses are Joseph Smith and Maud Mathewson.
Title: Re: Looking for George Frederick Green born 1906ish
Post by: osprey on Friday 30 January 26 22:57 GMT (UK)
there is a birth registration
George Frederick Green june qtr 1907 Louth vol 7a pg 596 mmn Harness

baptism at Theddlethorpe
16 June 1907 George Frederick son of John Robert & Betsy Green, father a cottager

this 1911 census with son Freddy
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X7YF-JGJ?lang=en

Betsy remarried jun qtr 1914 Louth to Edward H S Starmer

1921 at Lake Farm Croxley, George Fred is a farm labourer and stepson to Edward Henry Stratton Starmer

If he lost his father when very young, possibly he didn't remember or know his details?

 :-\
Title: Re: Looking for George Frederick Green born 1906ish
Post by: Cas (stallc) on Friday 30 January 26 23:11 GMT (UK)
There is also this one

GREEN, GEORGE  FREDERICK  mmn   MATTHEWSON 
GRO Reference: 1906  S Quarter in GOOLE  Volume 09C  Page 932

1911   Bottesford and Holme, Lincolnshire
Married 7 yrs, 3 children living, 2 died

Fred Green 28 Head, rag & bone dealer, Worksop, Nottinghamshire
Elinabeth Green   25   Wife, Goole, Yorkshire
Fred Green 5 Son, Goole, Yorkshire, England
Charles Green 3 Son, Lincolnshire
Emma Green 9mths Daughter "

1939 Fred snr an iron dealer. Elizabeth is Lizzie, family living Gainsborough

Cas
Title: Re: Looking for George Frederick Green born 1906ish
Post by: mckha489 on Friday 30 January 26 23:48 GMT (UK)
Have re written  for completeness

Witness Maud MATHEWSON

Could be
Maud Caroline LUMLEY/LUMBLEY who married Percy MATTHEWSON in 1919

1921 2 Gibbon Yard, Bridge St, Gainsborough
Maud C. MATHEWSON age 21y 3 mth. Married Born Goole, Yorkshire
Winnie MATHEWSON, dau 6 months bo Gainsboro’ Lincs
Rina/Rena MATHEWSON 22y 6 mths. Married born Huddersfield, Yorkshire
Percy is in the Army - his record is on ancestry. Says there is a son Percy.


1921 Workhouse Infirmary

Percy MATHEWSON 1 yr 8 mths both parents alive. Born Gainsboro’
There were other children, before Maud died in 1928.  But this family is not the one in question :)

However.

Percy senior born age 21 y 11 mths is in some barracks in Gainsborough
in 1921 is married, born Blyth, Nottinghamshire,  He is a private in the army infantry and has 2 children.

1911
on Bottesford Moor


Charles MATTHEWS  head, 55, Rag & Bone Dealer  9 children 8 living. b Bolton Lincs
Emily 58 born Winteringham, Lincs
Albert 15 b Boston
Ellen 13 b Gainsboro’
Percy 11 b Blyth, Nottinghamshire
Emily 8 b Scunthorpe
Ernest 5, b Barrow                 

Filled in by J. H. Sanderson. 

1901 Family of gipsies living on East Common  in a tent  - parish of St Lawerence, Frodingham

Charles MATHIESON head 42,  Gipsy Hawker b Bostson
Emily 32 b Winterhingham
Lizzie 14  b Hook, Yks. (which is essentially Goole)
John Ed. 12 b Boston
Frederick 10 b Lincoln
Albert 7 b Boston
Nellie 4 b Gainsborough
Percy 2 b Blyth, Notts

If this Lizzie is the woman who married Fred GREEN senior, which seems likely to me
then Percy is Fred junior’s uncle (although only 7 or so years older).
And the family found by Castallic is the correct one.
Title: Re: Looking for George Frederick Green born 1906ish
Post by: Neale1961 on Saturday 31 January 26 01:29 GMT (UK)
If this Lizzie is the woman who married Fred GREEN senior, which seems likely to me
then Percy is Fred junior’s uncle (although only 7 or so years older).
And the family found by Castallic is the correct one.

I agree with you mckha489 and Castallic. It looks like the same family.
I also did not find a marriage.

BIRTHS (Children seen in the 1911 census)
GREEN, GEORGE  FREDERICK     Mother - MATTHEWSON 
GRO Reference: 1906  S Quarter in GOOLE  Volume 09C  Page 932

GREEN, CHARLES       Mother - MATTHEWSON 
GRO Reference: 1908  S Quarter in GLANFORD BRIGG  Volume 07A  Page 714

GREEN, EMILY       Mother - MATTHEWSON 
GRO Reference: 1910  S Quarter in GLANFORD BRIGG  Volume 07A  Page 679

I don't know where they are in 1921. Have they changed names?


1911   Bottesford and Holme, Lincolnshire
Fred Green 28 Head, rag & bone dealer, Worksop, Nottinghamshire
Elinabeth Green   25   Wife, Goole, Yorkshire
Fred Green 5 Son, Goole, Yorkshire, England
Charles Green 3 Son, Lincolnshire
Emma Green 9mths Daughter "

1939 Fred snr an iron dealer. Elizabeth is Lizzie, family living Gainsborough

Fred snr in earlier census appears as George Frederick Green.
Title: Re: Looking for George Frederick Green born 1906ish
Post by: mckha489 on Saturday 31 January 26 01:45 GMT (UK)
Back to this family

Quote
1911
on Bottesford Moor

Charles MATTHEWS  head, 55, Rag & Bone Dealer  9 children 8 living. b Bolton Lincs
Emily 58 born Winteringham, Lincs
Albert 15 b Boston
Ellen 13 b Gainsboro’
Percy 11 b Blyth, Nottinghamshire
Emily 8 b Scunthorpe
Ernest 5, b Barrow   

Emily born Scunthorpe about 1903
She married Harry SMITH at Gainsborough in 1920

in 1921 - Caravan, Stackyard, Scunthorpe, Lincs

Hary SMITH 20 y 6 mths b Kings Lynn, Norfolk works for John Rivenby Removal Contractor
Emly wife 20 y 4 mths b Scunthorpe, Lincs
Henery 8 mths b Scunthorpe, Lincs
            
In 1939 this  SMITH family is living at 40 Wilson Street, Gainsborough
at number 38 is Edward A. MATHEWSON and his family dob 15 Dec 1892 - not sure where he fits in yet, but I cannot believe he doesn’t.

There is also a BOSWELL family at number 12 Wilson Street, Gainsborough
Title: Re: Looking for George Frederick Green born 1906ish
Post by: mckha489 on Saturday 31 January 26 06:54 GMT (UK)
There is a lot of information to be found with multipe extended intermarried families.

A google is profitable. for example. https://reimagininglincs.blogs.lincoln.ac.uk/2022/06/19/gypsies-in-lincolnshire-c-1850-1939-part-i/

Let us know if you need further help. Don't want to take the fun away for you!

Title: Re: Looking for George Frederick Green born 1906ish
Post by: worth on Saturday 31 January 26 10:40 GMT (UK)
Goodness me, i think i need to re re-read all that a few times to figure it all out. Thank you for all your help, your all defo on the right track and i think it is the correct Green family. Just need to put all the pieces together xx
Title: Re: Looking for George Frederick Green born 1906ish
Post by: DCB on Saturday 31 January 26 11:07 GMT (UK)
A tree on Ancestry has him born on 24th July 1906 to George W Green, b 1875, and Elizabeth Matthews, 1891-1980.

George William Green born Q1 1875 in Gainsborough mmn Bean. Sibling also mmn Bean.

Son of John Green and Mary, but no marriage found.

The tree has the Mathews family going back to 1594.
Title: Re: Looking for George Frederick Green born 1906ish
Post by: worth on Saturday 31 January 26 21:27 GMT (UK)
Hi all sorry its me again. I have pieced together everything above and its looking good, but i am now stuck again on the father, George Frederick Green born (c) 1885 who was married to Elizabeth Matthewson. His birth is recorded on the 1939 register as 22 July 1889 living in Gainsborough, and born in Worksop according to the 1911 census. However there are 3 births in Worksop and none of them match the birthdate on the 1939 register. I doesnt help that they are no where to be seen in 1921 and there is no marriage for him and Elizabeth, the death for George F Green in 1948 Gainsborough puts his age at 63 so that would be 1885 ish if its correct, any ideas on what to do next please as i am fast running out x
Title: Re: Looking for George Frederick Green born 1906ish
Post by: Cas (stallc) on Saturday 31 January 26 21:39 GMT (UK)
This find a grave has him age 65 on death in 1948

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/278527663/charles-mathewson

Must be him as buried with father in law Charles. Checked plot number and both are named.  If you look at original it looks died aged 65  (bc 1883)

Added - death info only as good as informant knowledge

Cas
Title: Re: Looking for George Frederick Green born 1906ish
Post by: worth on Saturday 31 January 26 22:06 GMT (UK)
Hi thanks for replying, i have just got the digital copy of this certificate and it is correct, the first age of 73 has been crossed out on the actual certificate and replaced with age 63 so making his birth around 1885ish x
Title: Re: Looking for George Frederick Green born 1906ish
Post by: Cas (stallc) on Saturday 31 January 26 22:06 GMT (UK)
Have you looked into the possibility concerning reply #12 by DCB to help rule in/out.

There was a possible son John born to couple that maybe one of the 2 children that died.

GREEN, JOHN    mmn   MATTHEWSON 
GRO Reference: 1905  M Quarter in LINCOLN  Volume 07A  Page 495

There may also be a daughter born 1912

GREEN, RANEY  mmn  MATTHESON 
GRO Reference: 1912  S Quarter in GLANFORD BRIGG  Volume 07A  Page 1296

Added - possible death

GREEN, JOHN   age    0 
GRO Reference: 1905  S Quarter in GOOLE  Volume 09C  Page 519

Cas
Title: Re: Looking for George Frederick Green born 1906ish
Post by: Cas (stallc) on Saturday 31 January 26 23:05 GMT (UK)
Good possible, one to be ruled in or out

GREEN, GEORGE  FREDERICK mmn    BARLOW 
GRO Reference: 1883  S Quarter in WORKSOP  Volume 07B  Page 28

Mary Harriett Barlow married John Robert Green, 4 Feb 1875. Marriage at Worksop, Priory (St. Mary & St. Cuthbert), Nottinghamshire,

1891 - Worksop Notts

John Green 39   Head, Blacksmith
Mary H Green 33   Wife
Sarah E Green 13   Daughter
John W Green 11   Son
George F Green   7   Son
Thomas J Green 5   Son
Walter H Green 2   Son
John Green 68   Father, Blacksmith
Sarah Green 71   Mother
John Caine 28   Visitor

Cas
Title: Re: Looking for George Frederick Green born 1906ish
Post by: Neale1961 on Saturday 31 January 26 23:21 GMT (UK)
I am looking at the same family as Cas, as the most possible. .....

Baptism Worksop Priory
2 Sept 1883
George Frederick GREEN
Son of John Robert GREEN (blacksmith) and Mary Harriett (nee BARLOW)

Mary Harriet BARLOW married 1875 Worksop to John Robert GREEN

1891 census
George Fred Green with father John (blacksmith) and mother Mary H in Worksop, and numerous siblings and grandparents - John and Sarah.

1901 census – the family is all split up, with children in various locations, because mother Mary Harriet Green had died.

1911 census Bottesford and Holme, Lincolnshire
Fred Green born 1883 Worksop Rag and Bone adealer

1911 census John Robert Green is at 41 Devonshire St Worksop Notts with a new wife called Emily
Title: Re: Looking for George Frederick Green born 1906ish
Post by: Neale1961 on Saturday 31 January 26 23:34 GMT (UK)
DEATH
GREEN, MARY  HARRIET                Age 37 
GRO Reference: 1891  S Quarter in WORKSOP  Volume 07B  Page 13

The last child born was Rebecca
GREEN, REBECCA  JANE              Mother - BARLOW 
GRO Reference: 1891  S Quarter in WORKSOP  Volume 07B  Page 27

In 1901 Rebecca is an adopted child with the Morris family.


John Robert GREEN  married 1908 Worksop to Emily VAUGHAN (nee SCOTT)

A child Rose Emily Green (1911) born to the new wife.
John Robert Green also took on a couple of Emily's children from her previous marriage (George and Nellie Vaughan).
Title: Re: Looking for George Frederick Green born 1906ish
Post by: worth on Sunday 01 February 26 20:32 GMT (UK)
Thank you all for replying i shall check it all out and hopefully find a link xx