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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: ODP on Thursday 29 January 26 11:49 GMT (UK)
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Hi good morning. Trying to trace my Grandparents Edward and Mary Keaney’s emigration
to Liverpool circa 1920/21. They married in Ireland Sept 1921 and moved to Bootle Dryden street near Liverpool between then and 1921, the year their daughter Mary was born (my mother)
Edward’s occupation was listed as publican and we think he managed a pub on the dock road near Bootle.
Hoping someone can help please cheers Brian
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Passage between Ireland & England at that time did not require records as it was part of the UK until 1922
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Thanks Carol. So is there is no way we will not be able to trace their arrival in Liverpool or their departure from Ireland? Can we trace their first record of residence in Dryden street then.
Cheers Brian
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Have you checked Electoral registers for that period or found them on the 1939 register
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/collections/61319/
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Only one ER entry appears for Edward Keaney 1945-1955 - consistently 17 Rycot Rd
Edward died 1955 aged 66. Burial register shows address as Rycot Rd
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1939 entry address is Dryden St but occ is partly obscured. From what can be read - it doesn’t seen consistent with a pub manager - more like a seaman
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Irish immigration to Britain
See: Irish Genealogy Toolkit
https://www.irish-genealogy-toolkit.com/Irish-immigration-to-Britain.html
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Just for information and a time scale - is this the marriage, September 1920?
Edward Keaney and Mary Anne McGowan.
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/marriage_returns/marriages_1920/09269/5355808.pdf
Mary A Keaney, mmn McGowan was born in September quarter 1921.
Do you have the month of her birth?
Were the family in Dryden Street at the time of Mary A’s birth?
The 1921 census was 19th June 1921 - they don’t seem to be recorded there.
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Opening post has wrong marriage year - should be 1920 from info posted above.
If not found in 1921 census they may have only arrived in Liverpool between the census & birth of daughter
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He was a Publican on his marriage but what was his occupation on his daughter’s birth certificate in 1921? Also, you will have his address there too.
The earliest I can see him, assuming it is him, is 1924, Electoral Registers.
Edward Keanney
Mary Ann Keanney - note the spelling
158 Rosalind Street
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Hi Everyone. Thanks for your replies.
Yes thanks Heywood. The marriage was definitely 1920 in Ireland as per marriage certificate. My mother Mary was born July 1921 but don’t know if it was at Dryden st. As per date of census they must have arrived at Dryden St after census. We know she was at Dryden street in 1939 with sisters Kath and Margaret and brother John.
Hi Carole. Yes that is correct with Edward’s details. The family moved to Rycot road after the May Blitz circa 1942/43 but more than likely they didn’t do electoral rolls during the war.
Thanks eveyone Brian
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It would be good for you to get your mother’s certificate – then you would have the address and Edward’s occupation.
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t would be good for you to get your mother’s certificate – then you would have the address and Edward’s occupation.
And only £3 for the instant view would do, selected via the index search
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/faq.asp
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/indexes_search.asp
With 1921 census 19 June and daughter Mary Ann born 7 July 1921 thats only a couple of weeks.
https://findmypast.co.uk/transcript?id=TNA/R39/4295/4295C/008/02
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Hi,
14 Garnett Avenue, Kirkdale, Lancashire
Edward REANEY 31 Leitrim Public Bar Assistant
Mary Anne REANEY 28 Leitrim Home Duties
Image looks like KEANEY to me.
Regards,
Daisy
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it is Keaney, his own handwriting looks a bit like an R but the cover sheet says Mr Keaney.
Didn't find as looked with K variations previously, certainly makes sense to be there already, 2 weeks before birth.
https://ancestry.co.uk/search/collections/63150/records/24487262
https://findmypast.co.uk/transcript?id=GBC/1921/RG15/17667/0577/01 [corrections submitted]
of KILTyclogher, Leitrim (he has spelling correct) vs KITTyclougher, mispelt residence on his R.C. civil marriage entry. The K is the same too.
https://townlands.ie/leitrim/rosclogher/cloonclare/kiltyclogher/corracloona
https://townlands.ie/leitrim/drumahaire/cloonclare/glenfarn/meenagh
Garnett Ave L4 1TS https://maps.app.goo.gl/wD5n8AxtWi5y4W2y7
Edward born Corracloona 14 Apr 1889 [13th on 1939 Reg]
https://irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1889/02474/1918603.pdf
Mary Anne's birth in Meenagh
https://irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1891/02369/1884403.pdf
Lots of Keaney /Keany variants & Magowans in Kiltyclogher DED 1901 & 1911. Edward not with his parents 1911.
https://census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Leitrim/Kiltyclogher/Corracloona/1475049
https://census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Leitrim/Kiltyclogher/Corracloona/657208
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:) Great finds from you both. Well done!
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Edward Kenney, aged 21 (Servant, Cellar Man) was at 695-697 Rochdale Road Manchester 1911.
Transcription errors for birthplace on both Ancestry & FindMyPast.
https://ancestry.co.uk/search/collections/2352/records/26430239
https://findmypast.co.uk/transcript?id=GBC/1911/RG14/24158/0077/5
birthplace I believe says Kilty-Cloughar, County Leitrim.
You could the train from Enniskillen to Belcoo or Manorhamilton in those days.
Sligo, Leitrim and Northern Counties Railway (SL&NCR)
https://transportsofdelight.smugmug.com/Railways/Irish-Railways/Sligo-Leitrim/i-Fg9Rtsp
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I was going to suggest that he may have been in Liverpool before his marriage.
Military records - I am sure you will have these if they are your Edward.
Fold3 record (pay site) so only index but may be on another site
Edward Keaney -b 1890 Sergeant 36729
Residence: “Coraclown, Kilclogher Co Lestrim”
Discharge Date 18 Feb 1920
Royal Garrison Artillery
A similar record with the same details but no birthplace gives residence as Kirkdale, Liverpool
Recipient of Military Medal
Edward Keaney - Sergeant Number 36729
Royal Garrison Artillery
Battalion 185 Hy Bty
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Theatre of war Salonica for the MM according to FindMyPast
stamped top of card https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D6181731
1st Theatre of War served Egypt, entered 8 Aug 1915 [so got 1915 Star] - WW1 medal index card.
https://ancestry.co.uk/search/categories/39/?name=_Keaney+&keyword=36729&keyword_x=1
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Thanks everyone for the info which mostly tallies with our records
However Garnett Avenue L4 is interesting .Is that the 1921 census.
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Yes - 1921.
If you look they are a separate household in a larger house.
Electoral registers show Catherine Lambert there in 1921 and years either side.
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Thanks everyone for the info which mostly tallies with our records
However Garnett Avenue L4 is interesting
Is him being in Manchester 1911 working as a cellar man in a hotel/public house not new?
somewhere near Queen's Park
1911 enumerator's book https://ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/1708/images/31820_01387-00399
side-by-side map http://rootschat.com/links/01u72
think the numbers must have changed, as different section of street to https://historicengland.org.uk/listing/the-list/list-entry/1247605?section=overview
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It was the Balmoral Hotel - interesting looking pub
http://pubs-of-manchester.blogspot.com/2012/04/balmoral-hotel-rochdale-road.html
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Thanks everyone for the info which mostly tallies with our records
However Garnett Avenue L4 is interesting .Is that the 1921 census.
Do you have a military record showing where he signed up?
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It was the Balmoral Hotel - interesting looking pub
Named on Town Plan 1:500 scale surveyed 1889, published 1891 but wasn't sure if name had stuck.
http://rootschat.com/links/01u71
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Yes, I saw it on a side-by-side map and then looked it up and found that photograph.
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Do you have a military record showing where he signed up?
I don't think his service record survives but based on his regiment being RGA rather than an Irish one plus the surnames on the medal award rolls (ordered by service number) would assume Manchester or Liverpool rather than in Ireland. Not in Absent Voters Lists.
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That’s what I am wondering Manchester or Liverpool and it’s just out of curiosity that’s all.
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Hi Heywood Would it be possible post i me the 1921 census detail that shows Edward and Mary Keaney at Garnett Avenue. L4. No mention of Edward living or working in Manchester in past conversations with family. He came straight from Ireland to Liverpool.
Cheers Brian
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Brian the Ancestry and Findmypast links are there for both the 1911 and 1921 census. If you don't have a sub to one or the other can perhaps access via a local library, posting images of the 1921 is not permitted. The address is on the cover sheet only, not also on the household schedule per 1911.
Widow Mrs Lambert & 4 children + 3 Saunders visitors at the same address, 14 Garnett Avenue, are the next image. I imagine that will match the birth cert image when you access.
Edward Keaney, Husband, Male, 31yrs 3 mths, Married, born Co. Leitrim, Kiltyclogher; Public Bar Assistant, employed by Peter Walker & Sons Brewer & Spirit Merchants of 331 Westminister Road, Kirkdale, Liverpool. No children under 16.
Mary Anne Keaney, Wife, Female, 28yrs 5 mths, Married, born Co. Leitrim, Kiltyclogher; Home Duties.
No mention of Edward living or working in Manchester in past conversations with family. He came straight from Ireland to Liverpool.
Think your family info is incorrect, a/a is not at family home or elsewhere in Ireland on the 1911 census. I'm confident that is him in Manchester. He either went home just to marry or had gone there following Discharge WW1 18 Feb 1920. He made a pension claim [neither Heywood or I can see the images as needs a sub fo ForcesWarRecords or Fold3] so perhaps suffered some effects, but did not did not get issued a Silver War Badge for injury preventing service during the war. At some stage he was admitted to No.31 Casualty Clearing Station that could have been for anything. However CCS 31 was in Salonica and that was where he earned his MM.
https://longlongtrail.co.uk/salonika-casualty-evacuation-chain
https://greatwarforum.org/topic/287802-31st-casualty-clearing-station-location-1918
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Hi. Thats great thanks re info about Garrett st very interesting. Would explain why I couldnt find them at Dryden st in 1921 census. Name looks like Kenny to me in Manchester post. I will check details when I visit Liverpool central library family research.
Thanks again.
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The Ancestry Hospital Admission is also Fold 3
However can access on Findmypast.
https://findmypast.co.uk/transcript?id=GBM/MH106/P2/768736
Admission & Discharge Book, Field Service. [second entry on page]
E Keaney, Bombadier, 43rd SB (battery/company), RGA #36729, age 27, Roman Catholic. Admission date 17 Mar 1917. No.31 Casualty Clearing Station. 5½ years service completed; 21 mths with the field force. Admitted for ?Uc/D [or something similar]. Perhaps unclassified disease, other entries on page is followed by (Trench Fever), (Malaria), (Influenza), (Bronchitis). All put in a sick convoy 18.3.17.
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Agree 1911 is Kenney (per reply 16) but the entry was completed by his employer John Roy who won't have asked him how he spelt it.
The chances of 2 Edwards with similar surname, aged the same, born the same place, and both with the same trade are slim.
If you research further back in Ireland you will have to be openminded about surnames - written by registers and priests of verbally stated information. Townland spellings will also vary. Edwards parents were literate but others born 1840-60 weren't. I've seen siblings in their 20's sign their surnames different 1901/1911.
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Hi Jon_ni Re Edward keaney was the 2915 star awardedfor specific acts of bravery etc or given to all troops who served in WW1.
Regards Brian
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Brian
The 1915 (and earlier 1914) Stars were awarded to the men who served in the earlier initial years of the War, in addition to the standard British War & Victory medals. The Trio nicknamed "Pip Squeak & Wilfred". Over 2 million Stars were awarded.
https://iwm.org.uk/history/first-world-war-service-medals
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1914–15_Star
The MILITARY MEDAL (MM) in the other hand was an award for "gallantry and devotion to duty when under fire in battle on land". 115,500 awarded
Your name would appear in the London Gazette, but no details of what awarded for, just name regiment service no..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_Medal
https://uk.forceswarrecords.com/subject/657810716/military-medal-mm
Google is the best resource for such questons as will get an instant answer, I am just shortlisting & summarising.