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General => Armed Forces => World War Two => Topic started by: Familysearch on Tuesday 27 January 26 15:04 GMT (UK)
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I have located (via Ancestry) an entry in the London Gazette - World War 11 Military Notices 1939-1945.
Am I able to find any further information beyond what is listed on that entry?
I have no experience of searching military records, so any guidance would be appreciated.
Thank you.
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What are you looking for more on - a gallantry award, notice of rank or something else?
Gazette entry is the official notification of an event so there is always more related in other locations.
Ross
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I just came across the entry, so don't know to what it refers.
It is an entry in the London Gazette , page 2763, 23 June 1942
2 March 1942
656272 Robert Andrew Whitmore (123047)
I know that 123047 is the service number. He died 9 Jul 1943
Interestingly, on the 1939 listing he is described as "Army Private Royal Warwickshire 5114253)
Could the entry in the Gazette be a record of his changing forces?
As mentioned in my original posting, I have no experience of military records.
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The entry you link to is a notification of his commission to Pilot Officer in the Royal Air Force.
This is the page before
https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/35606/page/2762
This name is in the group under Sgts
This means he was a Sergeant rank serving in RAFVR under service number 656272 prior to his commission.
Under his new personal number 123047 his service continued.
This is his subsequent promotion to Flying Officer.
https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/35809/supplement/5277
The entries in London Gazette are the official notice of similar entries in the Air Force List.
https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/96237706
https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/96227422
This expands to show he was aircrew Observer Branch (eg navigator)
His service record is still held by MoD apply via online method .GOV.UK to get a copy.
Ross
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His service record will lead to events recorded in Operations Record Books held at TNA where you can follow his aircrew career.
eg this from No.42 Operational Training Unit
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/xowdpu0u30vvoc5mvaeba/DSCF1137.JPG?rlkey=2il2w69v3mgeba99kc0o7h44y&st=j3kw83bn&dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/occuxj70dyn1fb8fqx4yi/DSCF1138.JPG?rlkey=a9436nosq9cu2z3uahw2mfbzd&st=vs3pixyu&dl=0
Ross
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Sadly in terms of visible footprints in the sands of time a death event creates far more lingering traces than a life.
All RAF aircraft incidents created a paperwork trail.
To easily keep tabs on the contents of a growing file on an accident, not attributable to enemy action, the RAF Records staff created an index card RAF Form F1180 Accident Card. This still exists even if the associated files have been dispersed/destroyed and is kept by RAF Museum at Hendon.
The F1180s are open to arranged visit to view but because of my research requirements for my book I have copies of the microfilms and can shortcut the time for a visit.
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/wu5xcooxpq94uywjumdld/06100171.JPG?rlkey=btuhy0co0vk6br675fcci0yfb&st=gllrzgc4&dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/p5tk1fqfrp5pv54kv8c3i/06100172.JPG?rlkey=n4lalnmu7x15o34uaz4x5zklw&st=gcodbndz&dl=0
I'll explain the detail it contains if you want but for the moment it gives the summary of events and any investigation stages carried out.
All accidents were examined to see if a trend on equipment or training failure was developing, in this case as the reason was not clear an Air Investigation Branch (AiB) investigation was requested. This was an extension of the prewar Civil Aircraft Crash Investigation and the precursor to todays Air Accident Investigation.
Full files generated by this group do not survive, but the personal archive copy of carbon paper flimsies of Vernon Brown have been saved. These are archived at the TNA under Avia series and it includes the report for Bristol Blenheim AZ876
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C6577800
That covers the machine but the RAF Casualty File raised to document the deceased crew should also survive in the archive however it does not show using TNA Discovery so either yet to be transferred/catalogued. Worth asking TNA to do a search of AIR81 documents pending entry onto Discovery using the details from F1180.
Ross
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His RAF Other Ranks service number is in a batch of 5,236 men transferred from Army starting January 1939.
This means that he will also have an Army service record held at the TNA under 5114253 but like his AIR81 casualty file not catalogued yet.
Ross
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Found my copy of AVIA5/22 and extracted the AiB report
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/9qvnrcghn2mggfzptey2g/P1670759.JPG?rlkey=f117onmnt5rflrknrcob81pdb&st=j183v0gu&dl=0
Ross
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Thank you for all the information that you have forwarded to me. It has certainly given me a very full picture of what happened.
My posting only came about from spotting the London Gazette entry when updating my records, having decided to take out another sub to Ancestry.
Was it usual to change from army to RAF?
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Over 5,000 men did the direct transfer Army to RAF plus a unknown number of ex Army 1919 to 1939 that decided to volunteer for RAF service before conscription took place.
So a number but not a drove.
Lots of factors at play here - not least the vivid family perception of trench warfare. Also was that public and service perception was of a technical modern RAF compared to a largely under equipped Army and after Dunkirk/Battle of Britain one that was defensive in outlook rather than offensive.
Come late 1944 it was a different direction - Army units were disbanding due to lack of manpower. RAF aircrew losses were a fraction of estimated leading to an excess of trained aircrew that were not being used operationally. Newly qualified power pilots were being transferred wholesale to the Army in particular to Glider Pilot Regiment to make up for losses in Normandy and Netherlands ready for Rhine Crossing. Much objections from the pilots involved.
Ross