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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: antiquesam on Sunday 25 January 26 16:09 GMT (UK)
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I can't find any trace of her after her marriage to John Donaghue (aged 22 and a Royal Navy stoker) on the 4th on November 1920.
The marriage certificate names her as Edith Mary Coomber aged 24 with Frank Coomber (deceased) as father.
Her birth registration names her as Edith Mary Cocks on the 18th November 1890 with a father Charles Cocks.
Her mother Elizabeth Ann Coomber (nee Cocks) was estranged from her husband Jethro Coomber when Edith was born.
She fostered two of her three illegitimate children with her marriage witness David Edwards.
I'm hoping someone is better than I am at finding her after the marriage.
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Edith mary probably believed that Frank coomber WAS her father if no one had told her otherwise
Charles "Cocks "was probably fictional to make herself more respectable
Unless Elizabeth Ann married someone with same surname
Have you found Frank or Jethro COOMBER
on any other records
Probably worth orderinng the original birth certificate to get more information.
Baptism.records sometimes give alternative information .
Where when were Edith Mary s children born
Have you searched 1921 census
& 1939 records
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There is a baptism.for edith mary cox with father francis henry cox mother elizabeth ann
20 jan 1890 in deal. kent
Could that be her ...so Frank Coomber Actually Francis H COX
This couple had royal marines connections 3 children
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Hi Brigidmac. I have the full tree for her parents Jethro and Elizabeth Ann. The whole scenario takes place in Devonport and I have all the birth and mariage certificates for them all including Edith Mary, which I quoted from in the original post. Her children were Margaret Elizabeth Mary Ethel Jane Coomber, Charles Frederick James Coomber (my father) and Thomas William Henry Coomber. I hold the birth and marriage certificates for both Margaret and Charles but nothing but the birth certificate for Thomas. None have a father on the birth certificate
I agree that the father's names are all fictitious (as is her birth date on the marriage certificate)
The past history is well covered but after 1920 I can't trace her or her husband John Donaghue.
Both of her children also used relations names for the father when getting married.
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WHERE was Edith born?
WHERE did she marry in 1920?
WHERE and WHEN were her children born?
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Edith Mary was born in Devonport (sub district St. Aubyn) at 58 James Street on 18/11/1890.
She married in Devonport on the 4th November 1920.
Her children were all born in Devonport on the 24/4/1912, 8/2/1915 and 16/10/1916.
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In 1921 I think Edith's husband John is listed as 19 yrs and 6 months, married, a First Class Stoker b Cork on board ship off Cairo
Kay
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Did you find her husbands parents & siblings in 1921 & 1939 ? Could she have been with them? With or without her sailor husband .
Im a great believer in DNA you might find a match who is your half cousin who knows more about her .
Could she have had more children ?
I suppose youve already looked for DONAGHUE births with mothers maiden name Cooks cox or Coomber
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That's interesting Kay. He was a stoker but he said he was 22 when he married, and John Donaghue seems to be a popular name in Ireland and the Armed Forces. I'd be interested in following it up though if you could give me your source.
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Hi Brigidmac. I'm afraid I know nothing about John Donoghue other than he said he was 22 and his father was also called John and was deceased and ex Royal Navy.
I don't have any cousins that know anything about this that are still alive.
FreeBMD, Ancestry and FindMyPast haven't come up with anything.
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Her children were Margaret Elizabeth Mary Ethel Jane Coomber, Charles Frederick James Coomber (my father) and Thomas William Henry Coomber.
I hold the birth and marriage certificates for both Margaret and Charles but nothing but the birth certificate for Thomas. None have a father on the birth certificate
I agree that the father's names are all fictitious (as is her birth date on the marriage certificate)
The past history is well covered but after 1920 I can't trace her or her husband John Donaghue.
Both of her children also used relations names for the father when getting married.
Have you looked at the 1921 census Devonport at Margaret E M J Coomber b1915 Devonport - notes mother dead :-\ but for Frederick C J Coomber both alive ???
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Hi Ladyhawk
Yes I found them. I have found (and spoken to
a couple of Margaret's children before they died) them living with the Edwards,. That's how I confirmed the marriage as he was a witness. I can't find Edith or John anywhere.
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That's interesting Kay. He was a stoker but he said he was 22 when he married, and John Donaghue seems to be a popular name in Ireland and the Armed Forces. I'd be interested in following it up though if you could give me your source.
I found him on F M P and his surname is transcribed as Dongahus but the same transcription is on Anc Just noticed the image has his birthplace as Youghal, Cork, Ireland
Kay
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Hi Kay. Thanks for the information. I see he is shown as having one child. Needless to say I can't find the birth unfortunately as that would have confirmed that this was my man.
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Hi Kay. Thanks for the information. I see he is shown as having one child. Needless to say I can't find the birth unfortunately as that would have confirmed that this was my man.
Note that the form asks for number of children OR Step children
Chrissie
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I did think that Edith's third child, Thomas William Henry Coomber, was only five when she married and hadn't been left with the Edward's, as the other two were, but I can't find him in the 1921 census either. It sweet that it's harder to come forward than it is to go back in time.
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Her mother Elizabeth Ann Coomber (nee Cocks) was estranged from her husband Jethro Coomber when Edith was born.
Have you seen the family on the 1891 census?
James Cocks 50 Head
Jane Cocks 58 Wife
Annie Coomber 27 Daughter (transcribed as Cocks on Ancestry but Coomer on image)
James H Cocks 12 Son
Jethro Coomber 32 Son-in-law
James W Coomber 7 Grandson
Annie J Coomber 5 Granddaughter
John J Coomber 2 Grandson
Edith M Cocks 4/12 Granddaughter
Elizabeth Ann (as Annie) and Jethro are together at least until daughter Edith is 4 months old
added
Just realised Edith has surname Cocks while other children are Coomber.
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Thanks for your response Lizziel. Yes I have seen that. I'm pretty well complete with the time before the marriage in 1920. I'm trying to find out what happened to my paternal grandmother after her marriage to John Donohue and my uncle Thomas William Henry Coomber who was only five years old when she married.
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Its very strange that Edith is listed under her mothers maiden name while the mother is still with her husband and children .
Maybe he refused to recognise her as his child
DNA of descendants would show if she was a full or half sibling of the Coomber children .
And for the next generation might give an explanation for 1921 why margarets mother is marked as dead but fredericks as both parents living
The anomaly of 1 years difference for john DONAGHUE s age is common. My grandmother believed she was born 1900 but actually 1899 same birth date .so most of her records 1939 marriage & death are a year out .
Also her middle name on her birth certificate was different from baptism records giving vital information about the birth father .
Donahue spellings can be very varied
Im not good at using wild cards to find alternative spellings .
Have you looked for newspaper reports
Do you have a tree where we can see all the connections.
Look forward to hearing of any discoveries that you make
Good luck.
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Edith's birth registration refers to the mother as Elizabeth Ann Cocks, formerly Coomber. Cocks was her maiden name. By 1901 Jethro Coomber was lodging in Sussex (the area in which he was born) and died in the local workhouse in 1917.
I've been working on my tree for twenty years now and for a long time named Jethro as my g/grandfather but I recently decided this was questionable.
Elizabeth named the father of Edith as Charles Cocks.
Throughout her life Edith interchanged her surname between Coomber and Cocks.
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Its very strange that Edith is listed under her mothers maiden name while the mother is still with her husband and children .
On the GRO index, Edith Cocks has mmn Coomber.
But she was still legally married to Jethro, so why say she was formerly Coomber if that was her married name and Cocks her maiden name
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You had to be very rich to divorce in those days. He was in the RN and was probably estranged by that time.
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He wasnt.completely estranged if he was on the census with the family when Edith was 4 months old
But they might have decided to separate by then and he was staying there for convenience and to be with his other children . As a sailor he probably had long periods away so would know if Edith was Not his
I think youre right to assume Jethro wasnt the father ..
DNA could resolve if it was actually a Charles Cocks ...are there any cousins by that name ?
* or did jethro marry a relation elizabeth coomber who was adopted by cocks family
FORMERLY is what my grandmothers marriage certificate says with surname of her adoptive family ( she may not have known she was adopted til she married )
I had a quick look at trees on ancestry
None of them have included any of Ediths children ..and several have her born in Davenport Australia . !
So no leads there about what became of john .edith or Thomas
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Hi Kay. Thanks for the information. I see he is shown as having one child. Needless to say I can't find the birth unfortunately as that would have confirmed that this was my man.
On the 1921 census form there is a grid in which the age of the child was entered. Does the age match up with that of Edith's missing child?
The fact the John on the census and Edith's husband were both stokers might be a coincidence. A lot of stokers were needed on ships at that time.
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Hi Brigidmac. My tree is on Ancestry and it certainly includes Edith's children, including my father. Elizabeth was born in Camelford to James Cocks. I think you're trying to make this even more complicated than it actually is. My task is to find where my grandmother was after her marriage and when she died.
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antiquesam - just posting this in case there might be a slim chance there's a connection - I know Edith has not been found after her 1920 marriage to John Donaghue - do you think it’s likely she remarried later in life?
Mar 1948 Plymouth F H Ayres/Edith M Donaghue
Probably deaths in Plymouth which seem to match up with the names on 1948 marriage entry - although only the month matches your Edith’s date of birth ???
Edith Mary Ayres age 71 Birth 9 Nov 1899
Registration Dec 1971 Plymouth Volume 7a Page 1719
Edith Mary Ayres of Prospect Rd Devonport
died 25 Oct 1971 Probate 28 Dec 1972 Administration London
Frederick Henry Ayres (wife Edith Mary same address)
died 26 Jan 1963 Probate 21 Feb 1963 Probate Registry Bodmin
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Thank you Ladyhawk. That sounds like a good lead. Details on certificates with this branch of the family are variable. I'm out at the moment but I'll have a look when I get home.
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Hi Ladyhawk. I've started down your research path and have ordered the Donaghue/Ayres marriage certificate. Let's see what that turns up.
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Hi Ladyhawk. I've started down your research path and have ordered the Donaghue/Ayres marriage certificate. Let's see what that turns up.
Will keep my fingers crossed 🤞
That's interesting Kay. He was a stoker but he said he was 22 when he married, and John Donaghue seems to be a popular name in Ireland
I found him on F M P and his surname is transcribed as Dongahus but the same transcription is on Anc Just noticed the image has his birthplace as Youghal, Cork, Ireland
Thanks for the information. I see he is shown as having one child. Needless to say I can't find the birth unfortunately as that would have confirmed that this was my man.
On the 1921 census form there is a grid in which the age of the child was entered. Does the age match up with that of Edith's missing child?
The fact the John on the census and Edith's husband were both stokers might be a coincidence. A lot of stokers were needed on ships at that time.
I’m only posting this just in case this is the John mentioned as his birth is in Youghal
and his fathers name is John
John Donoghue born 23 Feb 1900 he has a middle name James
his father named John, shopkeeper mother Kate nee Daly
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1900/01993/1767054.pdf
Sisters
Mary Josephine 5 Dec 1897 address Main Street
Catherine 28 April 1901
Brothers
Charles 3 Oct 1902
William Joseph 5 Aug 1904
Christopher Patrick 18 Dec 1905
Thomas 22 Dec 1908 address Tallow Street
Not sure possibly marriage 1897 but John’s occ car owner
John Donoghue & Kate Slattery, she was a widow, married 1897 Youghal,
her father James Daly, his Charles Donoghue
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/marriage_returns/marriages_1897/10447/5804577.pdf
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Thanks Ladyhawk. John stated his father was John Donaghue (a deceased naval pensioner) on his marriage certificate. Who knows?
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Thanks Ladyhawk. John stated his father was John Donaghue (a deceased naval pensioner) on his marriage certificate. Who knows?
I had an ancestor who was an army pensioner but when he retired from the army ran a grocer's shop, either or both occupations appeared on official records.
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Hi Ladyhawk. Following your possible lead about Edith marrying again. I got the marriage certificate this morning. Edith is once again being coy in her declarations. She describes herself as a spinster living at the same address as her bridegroom and dosesn't name her father or his occupation. This blinking woman is as illusive as a ghost.