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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Derry (Londonderry) => Topic started by: kieran257 on Sunday 25 January 26 02:31 GMT (UK)
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Hi all.
I am hoping that someone can help me as I am at a loss trying to find this family:
Robert Kearns married Sarah McKernan
They had two children
Andrew born in 14 May 1895 and died 18 Nov 1954 in Boveagh, Desertmartin, Co Derry
Willie /Kearns/ (Kerins) born in 1896 ?
This is the family in 1901
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Londonderry/Bancran/Tonaght/1543510/
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Londonderry/Iniscarn/Boveagh/610432/
Can anyone help find the parents or Willie birth etc
Thanks for all your kind help as always it is very much appreciated
Kieran
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Yes, they are difficult indeed.
This is Andrews birth. I know you already have it.
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1895/02221/1837910.pdf
Informant is Ellen - the grandmother?
Robert is a tailor in that record.
? Possible marriage here. Robert is a shirt cutter.
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/marriage_returns/marriages_1897/10462/5809718.pdf
Have you tried the spelling CAIRNS for KEANS?
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This is the death of grandmother Ellen Keela in 1919.
Grandson Andrew Kearns informant.
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/deaths_returns/deaths_1919/05154/4421264.pdf
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Willie /Kearns/ (Kerins) born in 1896 ?
On the census, It is NELLIE, not Willie.
Nellie is a version of Ellen.
How do you know she is the child of RObert and Sarah?
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Hi Neale1961,
Thank you so much for all your help
I see you have been able to find a few pieces of the puzzle which is fantastic.
Andrew and Nellie are siblings according to the census Grandson and Granddaughter
Could Ellen Devlin be Nellie married to Devlin? Also I beleive the surname Otterson is related to this family
Arthur Grimes death
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/deaths_returns/deaths_1900/05764/4628732.pdf
No trace of Robert or Sarah
Sarah who I believe married 3 times?
Thank you again so much for all your help it is so much appreciated
Kieran
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Andrew and Nellie are siblings according to the census Grandson and Granddaughter
The census doesn't say they are siblings just that they are Ellen's grandchildren.
Can Arthur Grimes be found?
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/deaths_returns/deaths_1900/05764/4628732.pdf
What do you mean by found? He was born before registration of births so there will be no birth certificate. He wasn't married so no marriage registration. He died before the 1901 census. You have his death registration.
No trace of Robert or Sarah who I beleive married 3 times?
Who married 3 times? Robert or Sarah?
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Can Arthur Grimes be found?
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/deaths_returns/deaths_1900/05764/4628732.pdf
What do you mean by found? He was born before registration of births so there will be no birth certificate. He wasn't married so no marriage registration. He died before the 1901 census. You have his death registration.
Arthur was alive for the 1911 census. The death found cannot be correct.
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…. Also I beleive the surname Otterson is related to this family
Please explain and provide more information.
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With reference to Arthur ‘Grimes’
There is this death in 1912, although the age is out.
Arthur Graham, 42 yrs of Boveagh.
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/deaths_returns/deaths_1912/05354/4491922.pdf
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Well Done Heywood. I think that is him.
The constant large variation in surname spelling for all of this family makes it all very challenging.
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This might be Arthur in the 1901 census.
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Londonderry/Castledawson/Ballymaguigan/1541791/
NO NOT CORRECT - read forward.
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I was just searching the very same thing but found him in 1911. So that is not the Arthur that we seek.
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Londonderry/Castledawson/Ballymaguigan/608053/
Valuation records show Arthur Grines - same spelling - in 1911 at Boveagh.
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Valuation records show Arthur Grines - same spelling - in 1911 at Boveagh.
Arthur Grines does not seem a very common name. Why so difficult to find anything? Did he move away from Ireland?
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Just a few newspaper mentions.
Coleraine Chronicle, 30 December 1905: MAGHERAFELT BOARD OF GUARDIANS. … The Local Government Board wrote relative to the application on behalf of Arthur Grimes for the custody of his nephew, an inmate of the workhouse, and requested to be informed of the age of the boy, and whether he was an orphan or deserted child. Mr. Cauley said that the clergyman in Draperstown was not satisfied as to the uncle's ability to keep the child and would not give him a certificate, and the Clerk was directed to inform the Local Government Board that the conditions laid down by the Guardians as to the boy going out were not fulfilled.
Mid Ulster Mail 10 July 1909: A BOY DISCHARGED. A letter of recommendation was received from the Rev. Father Kerlin, C.C., that Arthur Grimes of Boveagh, would prove a proper guardian for his nephew, Andrew Kearns, who was an inmate of the workhouse. He was a wise and sober man, and would set Kearns a good example. As he lived in the next townland to Grimes he would look after the interests of the boy while there. It was resolved to give the boy to Grimes. Messrs Glover & McGuckin to prepare the necessary adoption form.
Mid Ulster Mail, 15 July 1911: SALES BY AUCTION. … MONDAY, 31st July, at 12 o'clock, Noon, for Mr Arthur Grimes, Boveagh, who is emigrating - 3 Acres of Corn, 2 Acres of Potatoes, etc.
I also noticed the following two baptisms, see what you think.
Lissan RC parish, 29 June 1867, Sarah Jane of Charles McKearnan? & Eleanor Devlin, the word illegitimate is clearly there and I think the location after that might be meant as Muntober:
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632605#page/61/mode/1up (right page)
Muntober:
https://www.townlands.ie/tyrone/dungannon-upper/kildress/oritor/muntober/
Desertcreight RC parish, 4 December 1863, Arthur of Arthur Grimes and Ellen Devlin:
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632534?locale=en#page/18/mode/1up (right page, top)
So if these are relevant, I suppose one possible scenario is that Sarah and Arthur were half siblings. I couldn't find a marriage for Ellen and Arthur, nor one for Ellen and a "Keela".
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Gaffy, excellent work. That moves things along quite a bit.
Ellen uses her maiden name Devlin in the 1901 census.
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Hi all,
Thank you all so much for all your kind help.
I found this family so hard to track. So i am so greatful of all the help.
I can't recall now how the name Otterson fits in to my family tree.
McKernan is our family name so it fits and so does O'Neill as that would be my great grandmothers side which i know very little as she died in her 40's
I thank you all from the bottom of my heart for helping me piece this together.
Many thanks
Kieran
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Gaffy, excellent work. That moves things along quite a bit.
Ellen uses her maiden name Devlin in the 1901 census.
So is Ellen Devlin - Ellen Keele?
Thank you
Kieran
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A couple of points
Thanks gaffy - great information there.
1901
Ellen Devlin 60 yrs , housekeeper b Co Londonderry
1911
Ellen ‘Keele’/‘Kela’ 80 yrs Linen Weaver b Co Tyrone
Arthur was resident in Boveagh in 1911 -revision books with previous residents, Edward McGuiggan - crossed through and Catherine McGuiggan written above.
I do wonder if Arthur is the death in the workhouse and his name just misunderstood.
Ottersons also lived in Boveagh
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So is Ellen Devlin - Ellen Keele?
It has to be a possibility, we know from the 1919 Keela death that Andrew was her grandson and the 1901 - 1911 age difference could simply be classic Old Age Pension age inflation (1908 Act, introduced in 1909). But as I said, I can't find a marriage to Keela (or variant spellings).
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Mid Ulster Mail, 12 July 1913: SALES BY AUCTION. MONDAY, 14th, at 4 o'clock, for Reps. Mr Arthur Grimes, 8 Pecks Flax, 2 Acres Forcegrass,1/2 Acre Oats, 1/2 Acre of Potatoes, in Boveagh.
Mention of "Reps." could suggest that Arthur did indeed leave as intended.
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Hi all,
Thank you all for your kind help as this family is not easy to sort out
I was told Robert Kearns was listed as Robert Querns in Dungiven but I can't see him in any census?
Thanks for all your help as always very much appreciated
Kieran
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The only folk I could find in that vicinity were these ones, John "Quiarns" and Mary Hutton, I couldn't find a son Robert though:
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Londonderry/Dungiven/Dungiven/1524330/
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Londonderry/Dungiven/Main_Street/595216/
By the way, I can see a transcript of a baptism in Ballinascreen RC parish for an Andrew Kearns baptised on 19 May 1895 for parents transcribed as Robert Kearns and Sarah "McCarron", the sponsor was a Mary Anne Kane and a comment added to the record says Father-Protestant. Married Catherine Henrietta Woods on 29 October 1929 at Straw.
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There is this death - apologies if already posted!
Sarah Cairns, 30 years, married of Straw
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/deaths_returns/deaths_1900/05756/4625906.pdf
The informant - mother Ellen Devlin
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That's definitely interesting... :)
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The following is reaching a bit, but given the intractable nature of the research for these folk so far, I'll mention it just in case. It is a marriage in Greenlough RC parish on 28 November 1875 between a John Kealey and Ellen Devlin of Tyanee, witnessed by Mrs. John Madden and Mrs Kelly.
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633046?locale=en#page/101/mode/1up (bottom of right page)
On the downside, Tyanee is well northeast of the action so far and I can find neither a civil registration of this marriage nor any evidence of children. My line of thinking is that John maybe died early and Ellen Devlin had reverted to her maiden name by the time of the 1901 Ireland census, before re-assuming her married name in 1911 (maybe something to do with claiming the Old Age Pension?). Flimsy I know, but there has to be something like that to explain what's going on.
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That’s frustrating isn’t it.
I can see the civil marriages round about that one but I can’t go back and forth on my iPad.
Added
Managed to do a couple of pages but that marriage not there.
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Just another newspaper item similar to previous ones at reply #13, this one from the Northern Constitution of 16 January 1909, confirming that Arthur Grimes was also being called Arthur Graham and mentioning Ellen Devlin:
MAGHERAFELT RURAL BOARDS
BOARD OF GUARDIANS
BOARDING-OUT
An application was received from Arthur Graham, of Boveagh, for permission to adopt a boy at present in the workhouse named Andrew Kearns. It appeared that Graham was an uncle to the boy. A letter was also received from Ellen Devlin, who claimed to be the grandmother of the boy, objecting to his being given out to Graham. After discussion, it was decided that the Clerk should furnish Graham with the query sheet to be filled up, and then the Local Government Board could decide the matter.
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As I said earlier, I still think that Arthur Graham deceased is likely to be Arthur Grimes/Grines.
The applications take place over a number of years.
I wonder what happened to Nellie? No mention of her in the applications.
There is an E C, 14 yr old schoolgirl in Londonderry Workhouse in 1911 but that is assuming a lot - Ellen Cairns for example.
The Valuation Revision books, Boveagh, , show Arthur Grimes - the change of occupier to him is in red and 1911 is annotated on the record.
It is then changed and annotated to Andrew Kearns in 1922 and amended to Arthur Kearns in 1933, I think.
I must stress though that I am not that familiar with the books.
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The newspaper article confirming Arthur's intention to emigrate was in July 1911, the newspaper article selling crops for representatives of Arthur was in July 1913, I couldn't find any evidence of Arthur actually emigrating (eg. in manifests and emigration records), so that annotation of "1911" in the valuation revision books and the death for Arthur Graham in October 1912 would fit nicely, the cause of death says 6 months certified, I wouldn't be surprised if he felt the beginning of the end starting in 1911, around the time he was making his big plans.
I've been trying for some time (and failing) to find Nellie/Ellen post 1901, in terms of a death record, a marriage record, or a 1911 Ireland census record. And Robert Kearns remains a mystery, the fact he was protestant makes me doubt the existence of a marriage.
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I've been trying for some time (and failing) to find Nellie/Ellen post 1901, in terms of a death record, a marriage record, or a 1911 Ireland census record.
Her death was posted in reply #2.
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/deaths_returns/deaths_1919/05154/4421264.pdf
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I've been trying for some time (and failing) to find Nellie/Ellen post 1901, in terms of a death record, a marriage record, or a 1911 Ireland census record.
Her death was posted in reply #2.
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/deaths_returns/deaths_1919/05154/4421264.pdf
In our latest posts, gaffy and I are referring to the child transcribed as ‘Willie’ in 1901 who is likely to also be the child of Sarah and Robert Kearns.
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I've been trying for some time (and failing) to find Nellie/Ellen post 1901, in terms of a death record, a marriage record, or a 1911 Ireland census record.
Her death was posted in reply #2.
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/deaths_returns/deaths_1919/05154/4421264.pdf
In our latest posts, gaffy and I are referring to the child transcribed as ‘Willie’ in 1901 who is likely to also be the child of Sarah and Robert Kearns.
Sorry. Yes, I see you briefly mentioned her once, but reference to that Ellen was not clear in Gaffy's post.
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:) No worries. I just recall Willie is really Nellie as we both referred to her.
I thought she had been forgotten in all our searching so I tried to bring her back - thus the brief mention of that workhouse record.
In fact,you pointed the name difference out in reply #3. Thank you.