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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Derry (Londonderry) => Topic started by: Chrismckeever43 on Tuesday 20 January 26 19:24 GMT (UK)

Title: Locating interdenominational marriage record
Post by: Chrismckeever43 on Tuesday 20 January 26 19:24 GMT (UK)
I am trying to find a possible marriage record for my 3rd great-grandparents. They were John Logan and Eliza Kennedy. They likely married around 1857 as their 1st child Elizabeth was born the following year. I know they lived at Boghill, Ballyrashane Coleraine but they likely moved around alot. John died at masteragwee in 1896 and Eliza was there on the 1901 and 1911 census. Eliza was a Catholic as she was buried in an unmarked grave in Coleraine Cemetery and John a protestant.

I have DNA links to a James Kennedy (possibe brother to Eliza) who was married to a Margaret Sherwood and I believe he was from Myroe, Limavady.
Title: Re: Locating interdenominational marriage record
Post by: gc1 on Wednesday 21 January 26 19:32 GMT (UK)
Long shot and Not sure if this helps but based on the Limavady connection via James  ??? ???

Name   John Logan
Spouse's Sex   Unknown
Event Type   Marriage Registration
Event Date   1855
Event Place   Limavady, County Londonderry, Ireland
Page Number   322
Volume Number   9

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FT1D-H6J?lang=en
Title: Re: Locating interdenominational marriage record
Post by: Kiltaglassan on Wednesday 21 January 26 19:46 GMT (UK)

Bride is Jane King - Marriage 11 December 1855.
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/view/?record_id=cima-3252353


Title: Re: Locating interdenominational marriage record
Post by: aghadowey on Wednesday 21 January 26 20:45 GMT (UK)
Quote
John died at masteragwee in 1896
The only death I can find for a John Logan in Coleraine district in 1896 is this one-
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/deaths_returns/deaths_1896/05893/4671965.pdf
John Logan age 56 (so born c1840) at Balleney (Articlave sub-district), wife Eliza Logan signed by her mark.
Quote
John died at masteragwee in 1896 and Eliza was there on the 1901 and 1911 census.
Elizabeth Logan in 1901-
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Londonderry/Bannbrook/Masteragwee/1517203/ (Eliza and 2 grandchildren listed as Church of Ireland)
In 1911 Eliza Logan is not far away but in the townland of Belleney)-
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Londonderry/Bannbrook/Bellany/588175/
Title: Re: Locating interdenominational marriage record
Post by: dublin1850 on Thursday 22 January 26 10:06 GMT (UK)
I notice Eliza is a native of Derry in 1901 but Donegal in 1911.
Title: Re: Locating interdenominational marriage record
Post by: aghadowey on Thursday 22 January 26 12:12 GMT (UK)
Quote
Eliza was a Catholic as she was buried in an unmarked grave in Coleraine Cemetery and John a protestant.
Are you sure about their religions?

The Logans lived in Boghill in 1864 then again in 1877. There's a Patrick Logan also living at Boghill-
marriage in 1855 (Coleraine Registry Office)-
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/marriage_returns/marriages_1855/09487/5438215.pdf
Birth of son William there in 1865-
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1865/03566/2313489.pdf
Title: Re: Locating interdenominational marriage record
Post by: heywood on Thursday 22 January 26 12:46 GMT (UK)
There is this baptism – Coleraine - December 12th 1869

William (John crossed out and Wm? replaced) Logan, Boghill,  to John (Wm crossed out), Protestant and Ann Kennedy
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633138?locale=en#page/35/mode/1up
Presumably Ann is Eliza?

The baptism of Joseph, July 1872 is also marked John, Protestant, from Boghill.

Other baptisms, Ellen and John make no reference.
Title: Re: Locating interdenominational marriage record
Post by: aghadowey on Thursday 22 January 26 15:19 GMT (UK)
Heywood, I think that the baptism for William is the son of John & Eliza (Kennedy).
Where did you find an Ellen- I haven't come across her yet.

1911 census (filled out incorrectly since Elizabeth was a widow) says 8 children/5 living-
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Londonderry/Bannbrook/Bellany/588175/

OP mentioned a daughter Elizabeth in 1858.

John born 1864 (registered without name)-
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1864/03608/2331341.pdf
Which fits with this baptism for John-
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633138?locale=en#page/27/mode/1up
Birth was 29 June 1864 but not baptised until 21 July.

William James born 6 Feb.1867 but not baptised until 12 Dec.1869-
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1867/03502/2286977.pdf
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633138?locale=en#page/35/mode/1up

Francis born 28 Nov.1869-
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1869/03377/2237806.pdf

Joseph born 24 July 1872 and bapt. 4 days later-
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1872/03240/2187012.pdf
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633138?locale=en#page/38/mode/1up

Susannah born 6 Nov.1874 and bapt. 12 Apr.1875 (5 months later) according to Family Search-
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1874/03130/2147577.pdf
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:68LQ-S4Q6?lang=en

Possibly the youngest child-
Daughter (16 Oct.1877 Boghill-18 Oct.1877 Boghill)
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1877/02991/2096016.pdf
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/deaths_returns/deaths_1877/020534/7205636.pdf

Also found another child for Patrick Logan & Rachel Sinclair-
Elizabeth Logan, parents Patrick Logan & Rachel Sinclair, 24 July 1858 ?sp Old Mrs Logan
Bapt.: https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633138?locale=en#page/18/mode/1up
Title: Re: Locating interdenominational marriage record
Post by: heywood on Thursday 22 January 26 16:04 GMT (UK)
Here is Ellen - 6th February 1862 - hard to read and find
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632972?locale=en#page/36/mode/1up

It is transcribed as ‘Ellen’ but does not look like that really.
Title: Re: Locating interdenominational marriage record
Post by: aghadowey on Thursday 22 January 26 17:35 GMT (UK)
Here is Ellen - 6th February 1862 - hard to read and find
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632972?locale=en#page/36/mode/1up

It is transcribed as ‘Ellen’ but does not look like that really.
First line might be name of priest? (appears in several entries). Second line clearly Ellen.
Can't see marriage or death for her in Coleraine area at the moment.
Title: Re: Locating interdenominational marriage record
Post by: heywood on Thursday 22 January 26 18:02 GMT (UK)
I agree with the priest’s signature.
Of course it is Ellen - when I was looking at it again I was looking at John and trying to decipher that and make it into Ellen!
Title: Re: Locating interdenominational marriage record
Post by: Chrismckeever43 on Thursday 22 January 26 21:09 GMT (UK)
Ellen had two sons - William (born 31st December 1881) and John (born 14th August 1884) - no father listed on their birth records. They were both living with their grandmother Eliza at Masteragwee, Coleraine on the 1901 census. I can't for the life of me figure out where she ended up!
Title: Re: Locating interdenominational marriage record
Post by: Chrismckeever43 on Thursday 22 January 26 21:13 GMT (UK)
Elizabeth Logan born 1858, died on October 24th 1867 at the Bogs, Ballyrashane.
Title: Re: Locating interdenominational marriage record
Post by: Chrismckeever43 on Thursday 22 January 26 21:17 GMT (UK)
Quote
Eliza was a Catholic as she was buried in an unmarked grave in Coleraine Cemetery and John a protestant.
Are you sure about their religions?

The Logans lived in Boghill in 1864 then again in 1877. There's a Patrick Logan also living at Boghill-
marriage in 1855 (Coleraine Registry Office)-
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/marriage_returns/marriages_1855/09487/5438215.pdf
Birth of son William there in 1865-
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1865/03566/2313489.pdf

I only found out recently that she is buried on her own in the RC section in Coleraine Cemetery (grave unmarked) but her husband John wasn't buried with her. We think he was buried at First Dunboe Presbyterian Churchyard.
Title: Re: Locating interdenominational marriage record
Post by: aghadowey on Thursday 22 January 26 22:45 GMT (UK)
Well, we've identifies 8 children (as per entry on 1911 census but could be an error). The original request was for help finding the marriage of John Logan and Eliza Kennedy.
If it took place c1857 and was a Catholic ceremony then there will be no civil record. If it took place in Coleraine (as most of the baptisms did) then it is only the baptisms that survive pre-registration.
https://www.johngrenham.com/records/rc_church.php?churchid=0341&parish=Coleraine
I did check a few parishes outside Coleraine-
Tamlaghtard- https://www.johngrenham.com/records/rc_church.php?churchid=0379&parish=Tamlaghtard
Limavady goes back much further (both online and elsewhere)-
https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0363
https://www.johngrenham.com/records/rc_church.php?churchid=0363&parish=Limavady

I did lots of searching, found lots of information but this bit would be worth following up as it might lead to information of Eliza's parents, possibly siblings, and where she lived.
1908- Old Age pension- Elizabeth Logan, Balleney (from list in newspaper)
I checked the National Archives (Dublin) website but I thing any record might be in PRONI, Belfast.
Title: Re: Locating interdenominational marriage record
Post by: aghadowey on Thursday 22 January 26 22:49 GMT (UK)
Chrismckeever43- what information do you have on this ?(might lead to some clues about Eliza's family)
Quote
I have DNA links to a James Kennedy (possibe brother to Eliza) who was married to a Margaret Sherwood and I believe he was from Myroe, Limavady.
Title: Re: Locating interdenominational marriage record
Post by: jml414 on Thursday 22 January 26 23:43 GMT (UK)
Chrismckeever43- what information do you have on this ?(might lead to some clues about Eliza's family)
Quote
I have DNA links to a James Kennedy (possibe brother to Eliza) who was married to a Margaret Sherwood and I believe he was from Myroe, Limavady.

I also share a connection to John and Eliza Logan. Their daughter Susannah was my great-grandmother (married Edward Hutton). I have two potential brothers for Eliza, William and Patrick Kennedy. William's wife was Margaret Sherwood and he ended up in Ontario, Canada and he died on October 21st 1907 with a birthdate of around 1825. I have at least 50 close-ish DNA links to multiple of his children so it is highly plausible he was a brother. Patrick married Margaret Brewster on October 18th 1864, he was living at Broglasco, Limavady. Patrick and Margaret then relocated to Glasgow and he died there on January 17th 1895 (parents listed as William and Elizabeth Kennedy (nee McNaught). William was a common family name - multiple William Logan's.

I am interested in the old-age pension for Elizabeth Logan - is this something that may contain a lot of information?
Title: Re: Locating interdenominational marriage record
Post by: jml414 on Thursday 22 January 26 23:52 GMT (UK)
Chrismckeever43- what information do you have on this ?(might lead to some clues about Eliza's family)
Quote
I have DNA links to a James Kennedy (possibe brother to Eliza) who was married to a Margaret Sherwood and I believe he was from Myroe, Limavady.

Elizabeth Logan died 14th December 1924 aged 93 at Masteragwee, Coleraine - grandson John Hutton was present at her death.
Title: Re: Locating interdenominational marriage record
Post by: Wexflyer on Friday 23 January 26 00:19 GMT (UK)

I am interested in the old-age pension for Elizabeth Logan - is this something that may contain a lot of information?

At the least it should give her parents' names, and where she was residing at the time of the 1841 census (or 1851).
Title: Re: Locating interdenominational marriage record
Post by: jml414 on Friday 23 January 26 00:24 GMT (UK)
would this document be possible to find at PRONI?
Title: Re: Locating interdenominational marriage record
Post by: shanreagh on Friday 23 January 26 06:49 GMT (UK)
would this document be possible to find at PRONI?

Some of these are on line on Family Search

https://www.familysearch.org/en/search/catalog/464691

Having copied this info from Family Search I cannot seem to bring the actual records up but they have popped up, when I am looking for items for other people.....
Title: Re: Locating interdenominational marriage record
Post by: heywood on Friday 23 January 26 07:44 GMT (UK)

I also share a connection to John and Eliza Logan. Their daughter Susannah was my great-grandmother (married Edward Hutton). I have two potential brothers for Eliza, William and Patrick Kennedy. Patrick married Margaret Brewster on October 18th 1864, he was living at Broglasco, Limavady. Patrick and Margaret then relocated to Glasgow and he died there on January 17th 1895 (parents listed as William and Elizabeth Kennedy (nee McNaught). William was a common family name - multiple William Logan's.

Here is the marriage of Patrick Kennedy and Margaret Brouster - Presbyterian church
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/marriage_returns/marriages_1864/11625/8280199.pdf
Title: Re: Locating interdenominational marriage record
Post by: Kiltaglassan on Friday 23 January 26 09:33 GMT (UK)

......................
Patrick married Margaret Brewster on October 18th 1864, he was living at Broglasco, Limavady.
.....................

Here is the marriage of Patrick Kennedy and Margaret Brouster - Presbyterian church
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/marriage_returns/marriages_1864/11625/8280199.pdf

Broglasco
https://www.townlands.ie/londonderry/keenaght/tamlaght-finlagan/myroe/broglasco/

Margaret living in the adjacent townland of Broighter to the north.
https://www.townlands.ie/londonderry/keenaght/tamlaght-finlagan/myroe/broighter/


Title: Re: Locating interdenominational marriage record
Post by: Jon_ni on Saturday 24 January 26 06:22 GMT (UK)
Quote
would this document be possible to find at PRONI?
Some of these are on line on Family Search

The Familysearch film of N.I. OAP Pension Claim Searches and other sources were transcribed by Josephine Masterson and are on Ancestry. Browse the collection and read the initial pages for an explaination of contents, but is name searchable.
https://ancestry.co.uk/search/collections/48489
There are a few Elizabeth / Eliza Logans but not in Coleraine.

Worth checking the NAI database too though, there are 2 images of a Logan family in Portrush (I entered Logan as surname of father as was for a now married woman/applicant) and of Logans then in Donegal but now in Londonderry.
https://censussearchforms.nationalarchives.ie/search/cs/home.jsp
"The Old Age Pensions Act 1908 introduced a non-contributory pension for eligible people aged 70 and over. It was implemented from January 1909. To be eligible, applicants had to be 70 years old, to have an income of less than £31.10.00 per annum and to 'be of good character'.
The NAI background continues PRONI holds Census Search Forms for people living in Ulster, on microfilm, with their contents published by Josephine Masterson.
Title: Re: Locating interdenominational marriage record
Post by: aghadowey on Saturday 24 January 26 11:36 GMT (UK)
The mention of Eliza regarding Pension Claim appears in Coleraine Chronicle, 19 Dec.1908 where she is listed as Elizabeth Logan, Balleney. There should be a Pension application for her. The applicant forms can be quite basic (date, name and contact for applicant then names of parents, residence in 1841 or 1851) or, when original details provided do not result in clerk in Dublin finding the applicant in the place they said they were living in 1841 or 1851, more searching details would be added (such as other possible townlands listed, other relatives they might have lived with, etc.).

There are ones for Ulster here although not complete it seems-
https://censussearchforms.nationalarchives.ie/search/cs/index.jsp

Here's an example from a local family I know and have researched-
Application for gives names of parents (including mother's maiden name). Applicant was not found in 1851 with parents but other older siblings in household are listed.
https://censussearchforms.nationalarchives.ie/search/cs/details.jsp?id=40322

There was a family called Logan in Portrush who were fishermen but not connected to this Logan family.